The Value of Hymns

Transcript

okay as I said this uh class will be x about hymns x as a people been a boss and probably no x over the past while I've been going x around the Ecclesia and uh asking people x what their favorite hymn is and why x um x also obviously this is obviously very x um subjective topic and a very communal x one so feel free to input uh give input x whenever x so for the survey which is not done uh x despite how much further Steve hyped it x up on Sunday but the currently the Front x Runners x um the slide up x how to move slides here there we are x currently in first the survey is abide x with me x type a second are seek ye first and How x Great Thou Art x tied for fourth our Rochelle Bloom and x great faithfulness x and then in sixth place is to God be the x glory great things he has done x then they're like 30 other M's that uh x people have brought up x as their favorite x so I started the survey x um a couple reasons first because I just x thought it would be good to have a log x of what everyone's favorite game was I x guess it ever became necessary but uh x more significantly just to find out what x people valued in hymns x and fuel gave a lot of uh very different x reasons for why hymns were their x favorites uh some people really x emphasize the lyrics and particular I x kept hearing the phrase it says it all x and x as to why lyric spoke so much some x people uh for different hymns I know why x that one particular phrase kept coming x up but um means a lot to people x um x some people just like the music or like x the emotions or atmosphere the hymn uh x provided or x um sometimes the hymn was connected to a x specific memory or reminded them of a x specific person uh pretty often you know x you'll remind people of a loved one who x passed away it was their favorite him so x now it's become that person's favorite x him or reminded them of uh Bible school x or some other event that they uh people x cared about x and sometimes people didn't actually x know why him was their favorite and they x were just sure it was x so I guess the first question would be x what makes a good hymn to you because I x have a few criteria I came up with it x with but you know everyone's going to x have their own opinions on x uh what makes him good for them x after this so the criteria x can I hear this x criteria I came up with x B uh first that the music is easy enough x for people to quickly pick up and x complex or unique enough to keep people x interested x um generally people should be able to x follow the hymn aftering a verse or two x but if the hymn doesn't have anything x unique or interesting going on musically x they can pretty quickly start to lose x interest x uh x the Ecclesia is using a Pianist or x organist obviously the hymn can't be too x hard for them to play x and hymns can be a bit more complex when x you have a larger group like at a bible x school or uh weekend x uh second criteria would be that the x hymns aren't too short or too long with x some exceptions I would say most hymns x should and generally are somewhere x between a minute 30 and three minutes x yeah x if you use a particularly long hymn or x particularly short hymn we should be x careful to watch the length of the hymn x um maybe balance it out with some him x you know if we use one particular long x hand maybe use some other shorter hymns x um people probably won't notice if you x pick one very long hymn but if you're x picking multiple really long hymns uh x people definitely start to notice and x get distracting x they're good here is just that the music x is good x you know even the people who say they x like the lyrics of him generally picked x a hymn that still sounded decent x um besides just sounding good I think x it's important that the music evoke x something in you you know sometimes x you're playing a hymn and I'm just kind x of left wondering what exactly the music x is supposed to be making you feel x uh x so x hopefully the music brings out emotions x in you or certain feelings and that ties x in with uh criteria four that the lyrics x are good x uh even the people who said they picked x to him for the music x generally picked to him with solid x lyrics x uh you know it's important for the x lyrics to have a purpose and what are x they trying to achieve what message are x they sending to God and what reactions x are they evoking us x uh we'll talk about this a bit later but x hymns usually have a specific purpose in x service so obviously the lyrics of the x hymn should match what it's being used x for some things can have really specific x lyrics that don't fit for the majority x of services so we may not hear them x often uh the most I've been looking x through the hymn book try and you know x see what different hymns they have and x the most specific him I've seen so far x is in 146 which is just about first x Samuel 3 or Samuel hears God's voice for x the first time x uh so I guess if you ever talk about x that story and uh x a service I guess keep him 146 in mind x but otherwise I don't think there's much x of a chance that's going to come up uh x very often x um x the lyrics of the first 75 hymns in the x green book are just adapted from the x Psalms x um x conceptually I think it's really x interesting to be saying the same words x that people were singing in ancient x Israel in Judah but honestly I think a x lot of them can end up feeling that x forced and unnatural you know there's x some great hymns in the first 75 but x compared to the other sections of the x hymn book notice we don't actually use a x lot of the hymns for the verse 75. you x know with some obvious exceptions but um x many of them just don't get picked often x and so the fifth criteria that I would x say makes a good hymn is that the music x and lyrics synchronize well x um they should strengthen one another x and we when we stand up for a hymn we're x not just reading poetry and at least for x the three primary hymns we're not just x listening to the instrumental so both x the music and the lyrics should be x bringing something to the table to x create a greater whole x some hints may sound good but the lyrics x just don't or the music just doesn't fit x the lyrics at all uh in particular x there's some there are a lot of hymns x that have a pretty somber tune but quite x uplifting lyrics it kind of creates x dissonance between the two make the x message of him kind of confusing x is particularly well will be Joy to the x World obviously very joyful sounding x song and so they both promote the same x message another B How Great Thou Art x uh musically evokes the same Wonder x God's creation that the lyrics discuss x and on the other end of things would be x um was it for me thy flesh was wounded x sore m221 on the more you know somber x side of things uh in fact I guess some x people don't particularly care for the x Sim specifically because it is so x distraught uh but fairlease that shows x that it's achieving the tone it's going x for x uh my favorite hymn would be him 330. x you guys can play it but most people x probably recognize the Sim x um which is I heard the voice of Jesus x say x because the music tells the same story x as the lyrics it starts out very somber x and exhausted uh for gradually becoming x more hopeful peaceful as the narrator x finds comfort in Jesus x I guess I would ask you um do this x criteria make sense uh two guys or would x you say there are anything I've missed x because obviously like to hear more x I usually look at him uh Josh that has a x good beat that I could dance to x but the rest of your criteria like as x well x so Josh when you talk about this cry x these Five Points of criteria are you x placing any one above the other are you x just saying these are sort of on equal x ground as far as what's important x um I would say the last three are the x most important individually you know um x Good lyrics x um good music and the fact that the two x work together well x um the first two can be played with a x bit more you can have some more complex x hymns or some more simple hymns you can x have some longer him some very short x hymns they're just two things you x definitely need to keep in mind uh when x you're picking hymns and you have to be x careful about x uh specifically those two are important x as hymns not just as songs right so x um those are more like x um how the equation works with the hymns x which is just is it a good piece of x music x no x thanks x hi Josh it's Kimberly x um I really am enjoying your class on my x ride home from work thank you it's it's x it's very I really like it and x my favorite hymn and I think this is one x thing that you didn't bring up a reason x that I chose it is because of the x contract and it's him I don't know the x number off the top of my head but Lord x Jesus I have promised to serve thee to x the end my master and my friend x I feel like with that song there's such x a contract like I have promised to serve x you and then x back brings us right back to Genesis and x the promise that God has made to us so x my favorite hymn is because of that x contract and the promise that is there x from the very beginning of time x yeah yeah that's actually a good point x because you know uh sometimes are very x good if they bring something out from x the Bible right sometimes can just be x you know General feelings or whatever x summons really do x um pull some good messages from the x Bible and sort of connect us to those x feelings that's sort of what it meant x with uh talking about the um Psalms what x I liked about those is that you know you x are singing the same hymns that they're x singing thousands of years ago you can x get the same feelings from them so yeah x that's a good point x okay x anything else and I'll move on to uh x let's see x how do we use hems x yeah uh hymns often have particular x things they're meant for and are marked x in the green book as such x um some cliches use more hymns than we x do uh for service in Boston but here we x use at least five hymns every service x usually somewhere between seven to ten x of course we only sing three of them we x start with the preludes we generally use x at least two or three but it can be far x more x some hymns especially hymns that are a x bit too difficult or Too Short uh get x used a lot more as piano preludes and x post loots they actually get sung x hey Josh can you explain exactly what x you mean by Prelude x uh I mean the yeah when people are for x example getting ready to uh go sit down x or just talking around the either x pianist or the person controlling uh the x music system plays usually their piano x um pieces in the background x thanks x the after that x shouldn't really play this hymn x of course the Lord is in his holy Temple x is used as sort of The Unofficial it's x time to sit down we're starting theme uh x in fact the lyrics seem to show that x that's exactly what the hymn was meant x for x um x I guess one question I have is has x anyone been part of an inclusia or been x to inclusion that doesn't use this as x sort of their opening him x hey Josh yeah I I had never heard of x that costume before I moved to New x England it was totally unfamiliar to me x and it seems like all the ecclesias here x use it x but interesting not just here either x right but a lot of places but yeah it x was new to me x and so it was new to me as well we don't x use it in Australia or New Zealand x question if it's uh does that did x Abington use it like before they joined x uh Central x we we did not no x but I do like it x just gonna do it today x that was actually part of the criteria x for them to come into Fellowship well we x went round and round on that Jim x how about some of the other uh x folks online is that a is that a Prelude x that is used in Europe leisure x um I've been to Moorestown in New Jersey x and they don't use it and I miss it x I almost want to say you know you need x to do this x interesting it's up in Ontario is that x used up there x I would say yeah the Bible school yeah x no we don't use it we're in Ontario but x I'm aware of interesting yeah x yeah we use it sometimes we try to vary x the prelude x that would be my preference to vary it x yeah x good yeah the one from I would say with x varying it is at least in Boston uh when x people don't play sort of that final x postlude of Lords and this Holy Temple x and kind of kind of throw people off x people are expecting that before x um x you know the service starts x so people can be really surprised if you x don't play that one x everybody x your District x it does sort of set up people that go oh x I better I better shut up specifically x Butch of course yeah x yeah x and I guess my next question would be uh x for the people who do um use it as sort x of an unofficial starting him uh why or x when that started uh because that does x seem to be sort of the point of the hymn x but I don't know when or where that x became sort of at least for New England x the young officials were starting now x him x he actually used to do it when I grew up x in Springfield they played it x this as an open x or the Prelude but it just got x everybody's you know settled down and x you know let all the Earth keep silence x before him just kind of like preparing x your mind for the service x my final question on this would be has x anyone ever actually sung miss him x we have been stolen x yeah yeah interesting I don't remember x that because it you know it has lyrics x but it seems to be meant as sort of that x opening Prelude x um x you know setting up for um the Iglesia x that's interesting yeah I don't think x we're playing it as part of a memorial x yeah sort of like a hymn singer or x something yeah I can't remember but we x played it here yeah x okay well then after uh we play him 168 x in Boston uh in presiders and exhorters x among us feel free to give input on the x hymns you pick and why uh next we start x with the opening him usually it's a x praise him uh which in the hymn book is x marked as him 76 to 133 but more x nebulously just any him that focuses on x praising God uh hopefully and optimally x it gets people in the right frame of x mind for a service to start x then after that you know obviously we x have service and then the memorial hymn x which is remembrance of Christ sacrifice x uh due to the specific subject matter x the number of hymns tend to be pretty x limited so a lot of the same hymns get x used x then there's the closing him which is x usually just that you should wrap up x what the service was about x usually it's inspirational in some sense x and there's the post loot generally x picked by The Pianist or whoever is x controlling him using it uh the music x rather than the exorder presider some x people like more meditative post loots x and other people like Post lose that x energize people you know sort of marks x them out the door x foreign x Josh I can remember uh back when I first x started in the Ecclesia and you know we x had uh two pianists we had uh Ruth x Wallace and sister Nadia Fulton one x played the piano one played the organ x and Ruth was commissioned by her husband x that the postlude always had to be a uh x bang bang bang you know much the people x out the door uh kind of him he felt that x always should be something that just x picks people up and and gets them out of x this heat kind of music and every once x in a while Ruth would pick a Sombra him x and you could be assured that before she x walked into that building I would call x her aside and say that's not a that's x not a post fluid him x so it has changed over the years for x sure x Josh what I um I would pick a x closing him I would x think about uh want to think about the x kingdom I wouldn't want to think forward x those would be the type of hymns that I x would pick but vision for the future x Christ's return x um yeah the glories of the Kingdom x um or another exhortational you know hey x you've just been exhorted or we've been x exhorted to do love and good deeds x yeah and I think uh there's a praise the x Lord him uh let me serve you uh your x brother let's serve you yes that's kind x of along that line where we walk out of x here with that being the last thing that x we sang together just kind of like this x is our purpose we're supposed to be x servants right x so besides the hints we use in service x uh some other uses for hymns would be x Evening Hymns which are usually used at x bible school or weekends baptismal hymns x for baptisms obviously seasonal hymns x which are only picked at certain times x of the year x personally I think the seasonal hymns x can be a bit silly but that's just me x you know like we plow the leads and x Scatter or ho Reapers of life's Harvest x um there's a whole section in the hymn x book called seasons and special x occasions which also includes some hands x for weddings some New Year's hymns one x him him 427 seems to be the uh for the x opening of new meeting Hall which is x interesting x and I guess that would be about the x rarest him ever used x yeah what number is that Josh 4 27 427. x it was a good motor x foreign x 28 which x um let me find the exact note is it says x this hymn is suitable for receiving into x Fellowship x which I guess yeah it's separated from x baptism hymns so x because for adding people to your x congregation in particular x yeah so 427 you know talks about Grant x Lord thy blessing on this place it may x this license be a place that glorifies x that name Evermore pleases thee never x pleases thee x he was talking about this place in this x meeting place so x I I guess I don't know if anyone's ever x even heard that one but could be good x for whatever a new meeting place opens x up x and then you have dismissal hymns or x goodbye hymns which usually is just God x be with you till we meet again in 435 I x think it's definitely most popular of x those x certainly a great hymn we also tend to x tie him to certain events some hymns are x pretty much always played at bible x school like uh seek ye first and teach x me thy way uh hymns about Jesus birth x tend to get played around Christmas or x just considered him specifically for x Christmas x obviously service is more focused on x Christ's sacrifice and Resurrection in x the coming Kingdom but Christ's birth is x still a pretty important event I'm not x sure we need to you know sequester hymns x about his birth to only be played in x December x in fact x Joy to the World x um is lyrically not even about Christ's x birth it's about the kingdom but because x it's so culturally tied to Christmas x that's pretty much the only time we ever x sing it x to move on to the next section x I guess the next would be what is the x value of hymns now why do we sing hymns x simple answers because God commanded it x but that's not that you know that's not x an arbitrary commandment the hymns have x to have value uh that's why they say it x and I guess I'll first opened the floor x to what would you say is the value of x hymns x praise God x it's good first yeah I remember uh once x here in Harry tenants a hymns are the x only time we really do everything x together you made the point that even x when you give a prayer it's just one x brother and your mind can wander x sometimes but when it comes to a hymn x it's the one time when the whole x congregation is uh praising God as one x so it's one of the powerful things I x think that hymns do in a service or or x at any time x yeah so I agree no come up yeah you know x the first point I would say for what is x the value of hymns is you know people x and obviously the God he created us just x enjoy music you know it's one of the x most universally popular and appreciated x art mediums in the world it's relatively x rare for someone to not like music at x all at least compared to other mediums x like you know poetry or painting or x movies x um pretty much every society in the x world no matter how disconnected they x may be made and still makes their own x music x and as you said hymns are communal x they're probably the most communal part x of service you know to help people feel x part of the service and just instead of x just being in the audience and uh x you know when you're just sitting there x for a while your mind can certainly uh x started to wander whereas him sort of x pull you back in x and one thing that's very nice about x hymns is people rely on each other for x him or else him falls apart x in Boston we've largely switched to x using a choir recording for him I saw it x for a backing instrument x uh on one hand it theodically removes x some of that necessary communal aspect x that hymns can provide it's a bit of a x downside but on the other hand uh x honestly we're not great at Boston x musically once the choir improves x uh especially on new or difficult hymns x we could seriously be a mess before the x choir as our performance on Sunday uh x with the memorial hymn In 261 uh well x showed seems like a nice hymn but uh x there are certainly some growing pains x in us singing it x yeah Josh I think there was one time x when I was presiding very early on and x the Ecclesia just stopped and the piano x stopped and we picked another him x because I just picked something nobody x knew and it was not an uplifting x experience I was sweating bullets not x that this is personal but uh yeah x yeah Steve has something to add to as x well he's been resonated yeah I I just x wanted to mention that I just thought of x the singer is male and female to the x Tabernacle in the temple x and how they would sing and again I x think part of it is to go and you can x get a tune in your head and it helps you x remember x people can remember songs that they x learned when they were younger or on the x radio and so I think part of it is just x for memory you can hear a tune and then x you think of the words and that can x remind you if it's x what we're talking about then we x remember those and that can help us x remember the scripture or at least the x ideas behind the scripture x about to go right there x you know she said x hi Rich x how you doing buddy doing great x um yeah one of the things I think about x too is with music is x um x you know the emotion part of it that you x know if you you know with with hymns x it does help like if you were in like uh x you're depressed about something you're x going through a trial I have found x personally that the singing of hymns x actually elevates my mood and uh kind of x helps me to refocus on spiritual things x um and it can you know get me fired up x too like you know you know kind of x marching out of the out of the meeting x house you know it's just like okay I'm x back you know I had a tough week but man x that you know you end with a good ham x and a good excitation and you know it's x good spiritual food x um that we need to put into our bodies x and I know personally singing x helps me to do that x yep x yeah I've seen that rich ass was x thinking about like Paul and Silas yeah x all right that's right yeah they're in x the stocks and they're singing hymns x it's really amazing they were trying to x lift each other up it's a great Point x yeah x yeah yeah x people find it really easy to connect x with music uh it's very good it said in x a certain mood getting people into a x certain ad space x um you know I asked when um what x people's favorite hymns were uh some x people mentioned liking the old version x of a hymn from the Black Book which is a x place to work 20 years ago I believe I'm x not sure exactly the year that was x replaced but it was before my time x um which just kind of shows you know x people connect very deeply to these x animals but um something they heard that x long ago will still be in their mind x as you said you know music stays in x people's heads x you know I was asking a brother Phil x about his favorite uh he showed me the x records of what hymns we have played x over the past year with the um x system because you know it tracks x um how many times we play a Chim don't x have a guess what the most common hymn x or the past year was and how many times x you played it x seek you first x I guess it was not x how many times do you think it was it's x a bigger question even x since when uh the past year old past x year how about we shall be like him x not quite I believe that's one my life x and let it be x 234. x which one's that x 234. I forgot nope it's a break-in I x bred him x uh it is not okay it is God is my strong x salvation actually x and we've only played it five times x it's a short one I've picked that one x before x you said that that's the most popular x hymn that we sang in the last 12 months x is the most played hymn we've sang in x the last 12 months and we played it five x times x I think it's the time period of some x more than 12 months could be 24 months x all right x okay so he played five times in two x years x yeah x wow I'm surprised I'm so sick of it x it's a good variety x yeah so it's interesting uh we have all x so many of the hymns so ingrained in our x mind uh when compared to like your x advert pops on you don't actually hear x them very often at all x um if you pick basically any popular x song from the 80s uh you've probably all x heard it at least half a dozen times in x the past year or two just in the x background walking through a grocery x store or an ad on TV or something x um so yeah these hymns probably x especially because we sing that and they x mean so much uh to us really do just x stick in your head you know even years x down the road once you finally hear him x again just kind of Pops right back in x back one thing that really stood out uh x when doing this survey is how different x people's reactions were to the question x of what their favorite hymn was you know x some people could tell me x um right off the top of their head what x their favorite was uh some people had x several uh favorites they spent a couple x minutes you know going through the Bible x it's like oh I love that one that one x um some people never really thought x about it before x they were really surprised by the x question x um some people just didn't have a favor x you know so people really could connect x with him differently and I think most x people appreciate it some people x approach it um to different lengths can x you share this list Josh x um I mean I can show the picture though x I would I think Phil would have the x better all right cool yeah he's got the x full list I guess yeah thank you x let's say let's move on to um x Josh do you know how many hymns we have x sung in the past 24 months I do not x curious what the uh you know if we've x only sung x we have sung 82. 82. x 82 different hymns out of 400 or x something x yeah interesting x yeah I've been currently um going x through uh the hymn book just you know x listening to the different hymns about x halfway through uh but I've been keeping x track of how many hymns I immediately x recognized you know sort of recognized x and didn't recognize at all so I'm at uh x him too I've gone through him 219 which x is about halfway through uh I x immediately recognized 58 of them about x 26 percent uh 65 I sort of recognized so x 20 about 30 so in total at least x recognized about 56 then 96 or about 43 x I didn't know at all so we generally x know over about at least I generally x know about over half the hymns in the uh x hymn book you guys probably know more x than I do so we know a decent amount of x them x move on to final question of um should x we add more effort to add to him to add x more hymns x yeah x um x should we you know make an effort to add x more him to our repertoire um either by x trying out do him we haven't done before x in the green book or by experimenting x more with the PTL uh the first reason I x would give for whether it be a benefit x is you know new brain new hymns bring x more variety uh if we just play the same x hymns over and over or similar sounding x hymns there are a lot of similar x sounding hands in damn book uh people x can start to get bored and lose focus uh x they're in service a lot of hymns are x sort of in that same traditional British x Coral style which isn't necessarily bad x but can certainly get repetitive x um some negative adding some new hymns x would be as shown on Sunday some hymns x could take a while to learn it can be a x bit of a mess until we do learn them uh x that's one thing choir recordings help x with a lot x um and particularly uh while people are x focusing on learning the notes of the x new hymn they might not actually be x engaging with as much with the actual x content of the hymn and you know the x message of it x and the last negative I would say is not x so much a negative in and of itself but x a reason not to bother is that maybe you x just don't feel it's necessary uh well x some hymns in the green book can x certainly be similar there are a lot of x really good hymns uh in a repertoire can x you uh and even good hymns we all know x and like don't get played there x regularly x um it's easy to collectively forget x about them and because it's preside as a x new sword is just don't pick it or for x any other reason x that's it uh when I was doing the survey x there's definitely some recency bias x um you know I usually ask people after x service well it wasn't the majority of x time it wasn't unusual for people to say x you know oh I really like that hymn we x just sang I think that's my favorite x um usually people would say this about x him that's well liked but that we hadn't x heard in a while uh so to some extent I x think that does show that having a x variety in the him Stockton makes people x appreciate each uh him more x um because you know as yeah what's the x phrase yeah absent makes the heart x stronger or something like that x um so people do appreciate when it pops x up on the opposite end of things even x very good hymns can fall out of favor if x they're played too much uh for example x him 50 all people that on Earth Do Dwell x doesn't give played that much anymore x because I guess it get he used to get x played all the time x the second reason I'll give uh as a x reason to add more hymns is you know x maybe they're just good hints x um we added the PTL book A couple of x years ago we don't actually use fairy x many songs from it uh yet uh that's it x uh several people mentioned songs from x the PTL as being one of their favorites x um during the survey in particular uh x brother sister let me serve you uh ptl16 x and um how deep thy Father's Love have x asked Beyond out measure uh once 77 uh x got picked a couple times x so one of the things I think that's good x about the PTO is that hymns tend to be x in a different style than the green book x um which you know again varies it up x makes people appreciate each one more x overall I think you know trying new x hymns can be both distracting uh and x exciting and we're trying new hymns you x maybe not focus stop on messing up him x uh but on the other hand when you're x just seeing the same hymns over and over x uh they can lose their impact and you x start stop focusing on the actual x content of the hymns accounts x Josh x um yeah hymn number 50. x uh that is that's probably one of the x oldest hymns in our hymn book so over x 500 years old it's called the old x hundredth of julianola x I think it was written in like uh x 1535 or 15 40 or something like that so x I like it just because of its tradition x and it's historical x um x you know it's a historical place in the x hymn world yeah it's good him x well I thought you were a little x negative on it though John no I think I x think it's a good hymn but we don't play x to Boston very much x um because I think it got played a lot x 1561. 1561. x I I confessed that comment about we used x to play it all the time with uh that x comes from me laughs x if you can play it anytime you want it's x great I I don't mind him either I just x remember very distinctly for the first x 15 years that I was around that every x third Sunday we played that him x I would be like wow we're playing that x him again x okay x Jim that is interesting because I think x you know we obviously have our own um x you know our own characteristics and our x own personality I think sometimes you x know when we pick hymns maybe our x personality comes through those hymns x you know things you know the message of x the hymns you can kind of tell what's x important to the preside you know and x sometimes it goes along with the x excitation I think it's great when you x kind of meld all those things together x with the words of the expectation with x with the hymns as well x yeah I think you know you make an x interesting point from a perspot x what they call it presided from a x presider perspective there's a lot that x goes into uh selecting uh the hymns that x you pick On Any Given Sunday and I I x think that's a nice variety to have I x remember x um brother Steve Stewart was a presider x for many years in Boston and he liked a x rose shall bloom in a lonely place which x is a beautiful hymn x however I don't pick it I don't pick it x because it's too high and Steve Steve is x a high tenor singer so he loves singing x it but I don't pick it because I can't x hit the notes x so I think I think there's a variety of x things that goes into into determining x why to pick a hill x but everybody has their own sort of x um x you know x feel on on what they pick and why I x think yeah and exhausters as well a lot x of times as you know the exhortas will x come and say uh these are the hymns I'd x like to go along with now the service x um x okay sure whatever one one of the x limiting factors is the ability of The x Pianist or organist and hymns that have x five or six Flats uh played a lot less x than ones that are in C major sure and x the advantage with the recordings that x we're using at the moment is that we x that isn't a problem anymore and we can x choose hymns for either melody or the x words and not have to worry about can x the pianists uh handle this x and the good thing about the old 100th x is that it isn't a very easy key and x it's a relatively easy tune to play x from from memory x but it does have three sharps x it doesn't make any hymns with any x number of sharps or flats you like so oh x wonderful x and the other thing about the PTL board x um yeah PTO book is that we don't have a x lot of audio for it there's we've only x got audio for about 10 of the praise the x Lord hymns x okay that makes sense x you know Jim Sullivan it's it's Steve I x I remember you um and I x going to a uh seminar I think that Harry x Tennant did on eldership remember that x and x and he spoke about the duties of a x presider and house oh yes yes yes yes x and um he spent a lot of time actually x walking us through the hymn book where x we were x learning how to x find the hymns that related to different x uh in you know scriptural indexes right x so if you knew that the uh exhorter was x going to be speaking on first Samuel x chapter three you know you knew that x there was that one hymn that Josh x mentioned you know that would be x appropriate right x um and I think learning that hymn book x in learning how to use the scriptural x index is a is really a great thing for x the exhorters and the presiders and the x and the pianists to to use and when they x are selecting hymns well when I heard x that that Gabe was gonna be talking x about First Corinthians nine that's x immediately what I did you went to 345 x about running the race with all that x might run the straight race through x God's good grace right because his topic x and it ended up telling it nicely yeah x yeah so you picked the hymns on Sunday x yeah yeah and I think x um you know if you have that little it x jogs you back to what you just heard x right yeah my connection it's good I x think you know earlier night we were x talking about the purpose of the x different hymns and for me when I'm x presiding I try it possible to conclude x with something that will x sort of pick up on what the exhorter x might have been speaking about you know x I remember a time or two Steve where x you've actually changed uh the final x hymn uh because the exhorter was talking x about something that you said you know x that goes really well with this up this x other hem yeah x um what you can do you know if you've x got the x um the audio music or if you've got a x Pianist that's got you know a lot of x flexibility you know we I was talking x earlier about you know years ago and uh x Dana will remember this in in the old x days of presiding in Boston we had the x two sisters that could play anything but x they had a rule Ruth's rule was never x tell me what the hymns are x and Nadia's rule was you better call me x the day before and tell me what the x hymns are so all right so when you were x presiding the first thing you had to do x before you even picked the hymns is okay x who's the organist do I call her on x Saturday or tell her on Sunday and if x you made the mistake of calling Ruth on x sadly she'd say I don't know why you x called me I don't need to know it's like x oh okay but if you made the mistake of x not telling Nadia on Saturday with the x hints were on Sunday you pay the price x yeah I remember that once x is it true that uh sister Ruth knew x every him in the hymn book every him she x played it through you never every single x episode of Nadia for that matter but x um I don't think either one of them that x I can ever remember and maybe Bob can x speak to other Dana or whoever I don't x ever remember any either one of them x ever saying to me now we can't play that x now x and Ruth Newman by wrote she did not x know what want to know what you were x picking she wanted it to be a surprise x on Sunday morning x Josh you you asked a question like x um you were saying x about picking a hymns that we don't know x did you were you trying to say that we x we know an awful lot that we don't x really need to reach out to something x that's new I'm saying I like the idea of x you know adding ins and whatnot but one x of the reasons that people might give uh x why not to bother with that is you know x we have a lot of hymns that we don't x actually use that often that we already x like you know if you added more Himes x that would just kind of become more of a x problem uh I guess because you'd have x all these hymns that yeah you like them x but you don't actually get to hear them x that often maybe you know start to x forget them speak x um so I like adding hymns but I think x that is one note to remember is that you x know uh has said I've been going through x the handbook and you know looking at oh x yeah that him I really liked it why x don't we sing that more often you know x there are just a lot of him we don't get x to very often x um x you know one thought that I mean you x mentioned also that sometimes when you x pick at him then we've never done before x we x it can be a struggle x um and at one point that that's a funny x story that people actually gave up x um Midway through the hymn x um I don't think that we have to you x know x well I don't know especially as Phil was x saying when we have that we have you x know the the choir to kind of help us x through on a new one x it sometimes uh x good to x to well to get to get us thinking about x a new hymn and activating new uh x thinking and emotions and things like x that that hymns can kind of bring to us x and I think there's a scriptural x admonition to it as well and Psalm 149 x says praise the Lord sing to the Lord a x new song his praise in the Assembly of x the Saints like so I think it's a x Biblical thing that x to actually x you know x engage and try singing new new hymns x um if you look at the green book x one thing that I found really x interesting is that I uh you know a x brother that I met x um in Kenya actually wrote a couple of x the hymns in the green book and it's x like these are new hymns that you know x somebody you know went out of their uh x way to try to craft and create a new x song x um x and there are I guess a couple books x um Ben probably knows more about about x them than I do about Gabe is telling me x on the side here that we should bring in x that that those new Australian books or x whatever which x um I think are the hymns are pretty x challenging but uh they're definitely x some of them are really really nice so x just a thought x yeah new brings new uh new hymns sort of x bring new life uh into you know the x congregations so to speak x um as I said that's what I liked about x the PTL book x um you know they are you know they bring x something new to the table x um they're not x they do tend to focus uh more on sort of x the message x um lyrics the PTL book tends to be less x complex x um so it'd be interesting to add those x um Australian hymn books though I don't x know if we'd be ready for it x um yeah yeah interesting x yeah to him saying x Dana you got something x yeah just um at Midwest Bible school x after the year we we send out a survey x and one of the things that came back is x that x people would like to have a little more x say in what uh hymns are being played x the Prelude before a service or x um before a class or anything so x we're going to incorporate that into our x I think it was going to be in our sign x up website x or if not it was going to be sent out x before x a survey of what songs you'd like to x hear so that the x piano crew had a chance to look it over x but it was going to give them a little x more x uh input a little more x teeth in the game x to be able to say you know x I think this would be a great song for x our congregation and so that's what x we're going to do this year x interesting yeah x I've never heard that one before yeah x I mean it might blow up in our face x but uh yeah the thought was to get you x know people wanted to be able to give a x little input to uh to the hymns being x played x yeah people certainly too you know x uh you'll you know do other hymns uh x that you know they haven't heard in a x while they really do want to hear listen x I think that is one of the things uh x people like about biblical and such is x that you hear a lot of those hymns uh x that you don't hear normally in uh you x know just at your church x um whether because they pick uh rare x hymns or you know you have a him sing x you get to hear a lot of those sorts of x hymns uh you get to hear more difficult x hymns here we go x oh let's go here yep nice to meet you x one of the things um it's just the x fam uh will remember this uh we used to x have years and years ago uh we used to x have singing class where uh like maybe x after meeting instead of you know after x lunch we'd all get together and would x sing hymns and we'd do the different x pots and stuff like that sometimes it x was at night I remember going up to x Worcester and doing that as well I was I x was a little kid but I really I really x liked it like hearing all the brothers x and sisters sing seeing them working x together to create something beautiful x uh as a little kid it made an impression x on me that singing was important that in x that um you know we were kind of in the x same boat and and we had all the kind of x the same spiritual understanding of x things x yep because that's the thing about that x um yeah here we did the same thing a few x years ago Peter was doing that x um with the him sings and back in the x day Ethel used to do that more and um x you know that uh lets us learn some of x the trickier hymns uh that are often x very beautiful uh like a him 360 which x uh we come around because it's worth to x learn together which I believe we x learned at um one of the hymnsings back x in the day and uh we use you know fairly x regularly now uh but it would be kind of x a mess if you're just you know somebody x to pick that one on a Sunday and we x didn't know it uh there are some other x hymns like that in the book that are x very nice but and I don't think would be x too tricky x um to learn if people already knew it x you know people could pick it up just on x a first attempt uh you would need to do x it a him sing or something like that x some some people can get used to that x and um 360 is one of my and a lot of x people's favorite ends so I think those x uh you know him sings or him practices x can be very valuable and you know brings x people together to learning new things x and ways to praise God x yeah George I remember one of the the x songs I'll hear the power of Jesus name x you know crown him crown him that's what x that's a beautiful hymn but if you don't x if you really know how to sing it x it really comes out the power of that x song comes on I remember doing we were x doing that him and every every you know x the Altos or what whatever it is they x all had their own part and when you put x it all together x it was awesome x it was Altos uh bases this is bassoon x bassoon that was the Bobo I can't x remember all four but I think it's Alto x base bassoon and oboe okay got it in one x yeah I was just gonna say that um when x Rich and Jason and many of the other x children in our Sunday school had to x come upstairs on a Sunday morning during x Sunday school class and learn hymns for x the um program that was going to be x given in a few weeks I there was a x completely different attitude that they x those boys had then they were terrible x trying to get to work with the hymns but x they certainly have changed and I know x they are very strong in hymns and so x forth x let's be honest x okay if I remember you getting x frustrated oh yes very importantly lost x your temper yeah probably I did x rightfully so x I would never know he had the same child x to be that from that child x thank you for doing that man oh you're x welcome x that's because Pam prayed for you that's x right I mean x yeah x so Josh uh one thing that struck me um x about our the purpose of prayer in In x sorry the purpose of hymns uh x specifically when we pray in our hymns x was that we pray a lot to Jesus x in our hymns x um particularly uh memorial service x Memorial hymns we sing directly to Jesus x praying directly to Jesus which I find x um completely comfortable when I'm x singing x but when I'm giving a prayer x uh at at the microphone by my you know x for the Ecclesia it's very uncomfortable x for me to do that x um and I don't know if anybody else that x has that experience uh and I I think we x have um I know we have kind of a there's x a almost a stigma about praying uh to x Jesus from from the podium but we are x very very comfortable I don't know if x everybody else is comfortable or has x that sensation I never get an x uncomfortable sensation when I sing x Loving Shepherd of thy sheep x um or there's another one I had here x yeah Lord Jesus I promise I think that's x yeah thank you x um there's a bunch of them x um but anyway I I thought that was x interesting that our my mode is x different when I'm singing to Jesus as x uh compared to uh praying on my own uh x to him x yeah interesting point x can I build up can I build a point on x that Jim that's a great point you just x made by the way thank you very much x there's a um there's a point that x actually x um Peter Claussen made to me once and I x just want to throw it out there as a x consideration because I think it was x something that I've noticed and it is x powerful I've actually tried to do it x myself and it is this x uh you know Peter has joined us many x times online and a few times there in x person he said to me one day x I wish your closing uh person given the x closing prayer was right by the x microphone at the end of the closing x hymn he said because it connects the x hymn x into the prayer and the prayer actually x becomes an extension of the hymn and x gives the prayer more power and I've x actually tried to do that a couple times x when I've asked to give him a closing x prayer and I think it is x um a powerful connection as opposed to x you know those few seconds where you're x waiting for x um the person to come up and give the x closing prayer and then it becomes sort x of a gap or a breakdown oh now we're x moving to something else whereas if the x hymn the closing hymn ends in the x closing prayer person is right there to x start the prayer it feels like an x extension of the hymn and I think that x brings more of the congregation into the x closing prayer so it was just a x suggestion by be there but I think it's x a good one I've done it a couple times x and and I just thought it was it was x um it was a powerful x um x part of the service x yeah and I guess uh that's advertising x you know sort of I guess the overarching x theme of this uh I guess class sort of x thing is that you know him should be x pulling you in right and what makes it x bad him is if it distracts you and it x pulls you out x um pulling in you and strengthening you x uh hopefully tying into the talk x um and strengthening the whole system x um you know adding some life into the x service x you know hopefully it strengthens x everything around it x I guess that's sort of The Guiding uh x purpose of hymns uh that I would say x thank you Joshua x appreciate it x um Jim is it okay if I should ask Josh x could I get off the subject and just x respond to Jim's comment about praying x yeah x so I want to thank uh x Jim Sullivan x Jim thank you for having your son give x us class tonight x no you see what I'm getting at x you know what Jim's brother Jim boyko x said he's uncomfortable praying Jesus I x uncomfortable not doing that because I x think it's it's just uh x almost rude or offensive to say we know x that Jesus the right hand of the god and x then we're talking to God and Jesus is x right there and we're saying thank you x God for sending your son and we're x ignoring Jesus who did the work for us x I think not only is it comfortable I x think it's mandatory to give say thank x you Jesus for your love to us not just x thank you God for sending Jesus to me x that just detaches us x uh unnaturally from x from Jesus like you said there's a x social or a cultural stigma we have x against that because that's what other x churches do no that's reality I think x that's something we need to bring into x our services x you're welcome x you know something I never do and and x there's a reason to never do it you know x we're talking about you know picking x hymns when I exhort I never pick hymns x and the reason I never pick hymns is x because of all the times and Butch and I x have actually talked about this before x um where I'll give an excitation and x then the president will get up and say I x had no idea what he was going to talk x about but this hymn fits perfectly with x what the person talked about and it x happens again and again and again and x again and again and it doesn't happen by x accident x and it's not just when I exhort I've had x it happen many many times myself with x you sort of gets gets up and gives his x excitation I had no idea what he was x going to talk about and then I say well x it just so happens I picked him 222 x which is exactly what he just talked x about it's just it's part of the I think x it's also part of the power of the x presence of Jesus Christ in our midst x but I I'm not knocking those people that x offer him but I don't do it for that x very reason x I have a question x um I don't know if it's for for Phil or x or maybe somebody else but would it be x possible to create some sort of playlist x of hymns x I know that on Sunday morning Sandy and x I will sometimes listen to Chris x adelphian hymns on Spotify on as we x drive to meeting or you know if you tune x into our live stream early enough you x know Phil's playing all this music x um it'd be great to be able to do that x throughout the week and to have you know x Josh you talked about how x you know it's a memory aid sometimes or x how these things sort of you know help x you focus more x um you know and to have that you know x that playlist that runs through your x through through your stereo speakers at x home x um might be a nice thing to to have x could we create such a playlist x um there's nothing stopping us from x creating a playlist uh we run into x copyright problems x I know when um I was looking at x researching a teams and whatnot I think x it was the Williamsburg Foundation x website at least has uh the praise the x Lord hymns I think x up on their website x um that you can listen to if I'm x remembering that correctly I don't x believe it has all of them but yeah x interesting x M's for Sunday yeah good thanks guys