Temptation in the Wilderness – Internal or External

Transcript

uh because of interest in difficult x Bible passages both for preaching uh for x uh teaching in Sunday School x okay am I hearing stuff or is it just is x it really bad some background I know x you're hearing stuff hey Phil can you uh x can you mute yourself Phil Phil Baines x yeah if anybody's unhappy you can you x can yell at me for as long as you want x uh when we finish x I'm real easy on being corrected you x know being a professor for 40 years x and it is the truth especially since I x taught almost all graduate school you x learn a lot from your mistakes uh just x try to derive an equation on an old x chalkboard and make a mistake and you x got 10 students telling you what you've x done wrong and so you it humbles you a x bit so this topic came up x um and as I started looking into it I x realized this is quite a controversial x topic around the Detroit area and in x Ontario and when we visited in Australia x found that it's quite a controversial x topic there also and because of the x implications on the atonement x now I think in New England there and x probably in the Mid-Atlantic States uh x people don't uh I I don't remember x people arguing minutia over and over x again like sometimes happens in x here in the Midwest and it may be partly x because of the Collegiates here come out x of the Berean tradition and uh so much x more argumentative than um I'm used x to in the New York area or probably that x you're used to in New England x so I thought I'd take a look at this and x see what is that Community thought about x this I mean this is this is a topic x where if you ask an average Christian x they're going to say well they believe x in the devil the supernatural devil so x it's obvious the devil took them and uh x attempted with all these things x so x first I think before you ever started x studying anything go it's kind of x ingrained in me I I don't like to study x things that are not important so the x first thing that came to my mind when I x started hearing about this controversy x and why uh people in the Ecclesia asked x me to do something about this because x there's obviously there's some x dissension Even in our pleasure how to x teach this I decided I better find out x why it's important x well x this topic was out of my experience and x our collegiers experience and teaching x the gospel it is definitely difficult to x explain to someone who believes in the x devil and we have found here that x convincing people there's no devil is x actually a lot harder than convincing x them there's no Trinity for the obvious x reason that the Trinity is never x mentioned in the New Testament x and the devil is mentioned over and over x again and so is Satan so the argument x that we might use that that Trinity is a x made-up word is not something that we x can get away with when it comes to x talking about x the devil x um as Chris the Dolphins this temptation x was internal uh in the imagination of x Lord Jesus Christ some people find that x very hard to believe because they think x that Jesus could never have ever even x thought an idea that was contrary to his x father's will x or if it's external or even an angel or x something like that then you have to x explain x why was something more specific not x mentioned uh we have at least a few x people here in Detroit area who believe x it was Herod who went out into the x desert to tempt them uh I won't even I x will not touch on that during this class x because I x [Music] x I I found it very hard to bite my tongue x and not you know get get laughed when I x heard that so how do we view this x whether it was external something that x Jesus thought up a lot of exactly the x way we might be tempted or external x in some way you know that some peer or x somebody else trying to put Plants an x idea in our head x and I think it pays to take a look at x these uh three Clauses in the doctrines x to be trajector that is the dtbr is x doctrines to be rejected which is part x of our statement of faith okay I I think x people don't always realize the state x and effect includes the doctrines to be x rejected and includes the Commandments x of Christ x okay uh just a brief note here there's a x very good description of the Eternal x argument in Ron Abel's book Restless x scriptures on pages 173 174 and he comes x out very strongly in favor of internal x now oddly enough some of the ecclesiases x right near that where late uh the late x brother Iran lived uh are rejecting that x these days x keep it x so what's the picture x here are these three doctrines we reject x the doctrine that the Son of God was x co-eternal with the father x so x if you believe Jesus was co-eternal with x the father then you really have an x impossible time to x even consider that this could have been x in the mind of Christ that he thought up x but we reject that Doctrine x number two we reject the doctrine that x Christ was born with a free life now I x don't know about you but when you x explain the doctors to be rejected to x someone who's coming in through Bible x seminars this is one of these 19th x century Expressions that often uh gives x trouble uh by free life though in the x 19th century the Brethren meant that he x he could not commit sin even though he x had sin nature x that he could physically not commit sin x so if you believe that that that x Jesus then is no longer x suffering as we are he's not tempted in x all points like we are yet without his x sin as the writer of Hebrew tells us x okay x and finally um we reject the doctrine x that he was Immaculate and that means x that that Doctrine says Jesus had a free x will but he couldn't use it x now we know that Jesus had you know x sometimes I find it kind of silly when I x we argue with some people about these x ideas but we know Jesus had a free will x and he had different thoughts so he x would not have been in The Godly good x set to me promise saying praying that x God said light thy will be done not my x own so he obviously had within his x thinking x a desire to do something else and boy x that's as human as can be because I x don't know is dying to die x okay so these are the three doctrines x that get kind of get messed up if you um x accept that Jesus cannot possibly have x an internal idea about Sin x all right so Jesus gets baptized and go x quickly over the side x um and in the southern part of the x Jordan valleys and he as soon as he does x that he heads off x uh in in similar nature to Moses where x Moses had 40 days and 49s on the mount x and the area there and we've been x through this some many years back x um and we went through part of this in x Jordan just a few weeks back it's not x does it quite like the Sahara x it's Barren mountainous rocky area x and there's actually a monastery called x the monastery of the Temptation which is x located on the cliffs overlooking the x ancient ruins of Jericho and it's x supposedly where Jesus uh hoisted x himself for those 40 days and 40 nights x to shelter himself from the heat of the x sun and the cold of the night whether x whether that I there I have not been x able to find any x as a proof other than x this Monastery which was built like x roughly about a thousand years ago x so some of these some of these are myths x and sometimes maybe there was x information available then that we no x longer have x but nevertheless it is a very good x Barren place x and the issue then becomes what actually x happened x so now is where I could use some help x reading so I could save my voice a x little bit uh somebody would read x Matthew 4. 1 to 11 but just read uh this x these two verses because they're the x critical verses x all right I'll read it for you x then Jesus was led by the spirit Into x the Wilderness to be tempted by the x devil and after fasting 40 days and 40 x nights he was hungry x and the chapter came and said to him x that you are the Son of God command x these stones to become loaves of bread x but he answered it is written man shall x not live by bread alone but by every x word that comes from the mouth of God x okay so he took that straight out of x Deuteronomy uh verse chapter 8 verse 3 x and so he drives off the devil x by quoting scripture x yeah so let's pay attention as we go x along and then x go on please x and the devil took him to the holy city x and set him on the Pinnacle of the x temple and said to him if you are the x Son of God throw yourself down for it is x written he will command his angels x concerning you and on their hands they x will bear you up lest you strike your x foot against the stone x okay so if this is literal we got to x imagine that the devil had the power to x take Jesus and transport him to the the x roof the top roof of the temple uh in x Jerusalem x okay let's continue this what does he do x to that x challenge Jesus said to him again it is x written you shall not put the Lord your x God to the test x so again x the devil is trident x by words from scripture x okay let's go continue again the devil x took him to a very high mountain and x showed him all the kingdoms of the world x and their glory and he said to them all x these I will give you if you will fall x down and worship me x okay now try to imagine this I I x personally I don't know any such x Mountain that can show you all the x kingdoms of the world and so right there x we sort of get a clue that this is x metaphorical and it's a picture image of x Temptation it's not literal x and x what does Jesus do again x then Jesus said to him be gone Satan for x it is written you shall Worship the Lord x your God in him only shall you serve x okay so the devil is chased off by Bible x scriptures that in itself sort of is x something to keep in mind and keep keep x our picture and then the devil left him x behold Angels came and were ministering x to him x all right so first uh it's easy the easy x thing to do is to dismiss the idea that x there's a supernatural devil Christoph x means obviously don't have a problem x with this and my first approach has x always been you know can you really x picture some x Supernatural devil being driven off by x three or four verses from scripture and x when I presented that sometimes to x um Bible seminar people they they really x think about that yeah that doesn't make x a lot of sense that the devil would be x driven off by reciting a few Bible x verses x and there's other other things here that x underlie this is the devil does not rule x over the kingdoms of men God does x so that quote itself if it's a literal x quote is not the absolute picture that x the scriptures give us of where the x power really lies and um these two x verses are really critical in showing x the reality that there's no Supernatural x devil uh can I get uh Daniel 4 17 reader x and a Hebrews 2 14 reader x or readers or reader x I'll read them for you John sure thank x you James x uh Daniels 4 17. this matter is by the x decree of the Watchers and the demand by x the word of the Holy ones to the intent x that the living may know that the most x high ruleth in the kingdoms of men and x giveth to whomsoever he will x and set it up over at the basis of men x okay you don't have to read the blue x plot I think everybody can read as it's x quite obvious that the Bible doesn't x this doesn't say that the devil rules x and can we get 214 x sure for as much then as the children x are partakers of Flesh and Blood he also x himself likewise took part taking took x part of the same that through death he x might destroy him that had the power of x death that is the devil x thank you Jim so again there is if there x ever was a devil is destroyed he's gone x Christ destroyed him on the cross so I I x I think when we got to that point I've x never had any problem with x people who were on the seminar people uh x a bigger problem comes actually among x Christ adelphians and uh the reason I'm x doing this class is because I to me I x didn't think this was any problem at all x and as soon as it was raised by some x people and they started talking to other x people and I talked the more I talk the x more I said oh my gosh this what I've x always thought was simple x turned out not to be so simple x so x the Temptation in the wilderness is x repeated in Luke uh it is not mentioned x in the Gospel of John at all and in Mark x it's only briefly mentioned and in in x Mark maybe most many people think Mark x may be the most x correct gospel that it was uh written at x the dictation of Peter x and if that is is that tradition is x correct x um Mark doesn't even mention him going x out or Wilderness at all which it says x he spent 40 days and 40 nights in the x wilderness x and so there's no mention of him going x anywhere x so that's that that is pretty um x that's pretty conclusive if anyone would x know what happened to Jesus in the x wilderness it would have been Peter x okay x um x a couple of things that criticisms of x the whole 40 days and 40 nights has come x out from people like Richard Dawkins and x Hitchens and uh you know did what I call x the new atheists they say this whole x thing's myth and Legend it's nonsense x there's no way Moses or Jesus could have x survived 40 days and 40 nights x uh fasting x well x um x it doesn't really say how we fasted x and um x one should be very careful in these x detail x the actual biblical count says more that x he didn't eat anything it doesn't really x mention anything about x uh whether he had any access to to drink x and we are told he was immediately x ministered to By Angels x so I kind of discount all this this x medical analysis of it that no one can x survive could survive 40 days and 40 x nights without eating x um x but I think we all know that without x drinking is far more serious and it's it x is probable Jesus had access to water x okay x but even in that case Moses has said not x to have eaten or drunk and I think that x if God wants to preserve you and if he x can make you your body be immortal and x he wants to do something for 40 days I I x don't think this is a big job for God so x I trust in my faith that this this is x actually what happened x and it's pretty much not the point x the point is x Jesus was emulating Moses to show he was x the prophet that Moses predicted would x come after him x and in sort of to do that when Moses x went up the mount to give the Lord Jesus x before he could give the New Covenant x had to similarly dedicate himself x totally x [Music] x to destroying the flesh x so I'm just going to run through this x part fairly quickly because I I don't I x don't know if you've ever heard about x this there's been a few cases where x people have survived quite long times x without food or water x um but the record is supposedly by this x poor guy Andreas and I am not even gonna x per I'm not even gonna pretend to x pronounce his last name okay if there's x somebody here who's good at polish uh x that's fine I I had a way I spent about x 20 years uh collaborating with a Polish x women scientist and her name was Rick r x e k and she used to kid me that the only x reason I worked with her is I she had x the only polish name that I could x pronounce x and that might be true but anyway this x guy Andreas he was in an auto accident x and apparently they picked him up made a x mistake put them down and in prison and x forgot about him this was in in Austria x and when they found them uh some 21 days x later Somebody went and had a look x um and he I guess he he lost 53 pounds x now being sick on the ship I lost 15 I x am perhaps the only person in history x who was on a cruise and actually lost x weight x um I think I may have mentioned that x Dave I was talking to Dave Jennings x before we left I was out in L.A and we x had dinner with him and he said he x gained six pounds in seven days and he x predicted on 97 days I would come back x 50 pounds heavier so of course guess x who's the first person I called when I x came back x so anyway x um that's nowhere near 40 days and 40 x nights x um if you're interested in this and x anybody by the way anybody wants copies x of this let me know I'll be more than x glad to send you all these all these x pictures this is not copyrighted not x nothing if you want the notes and you x want to use it feel free to feel free to x use them x okay so here's the kind of picture you x get in ordinary Christian x [Music] x and the picture is quite x and I got this because talking to a x Christian minister x of possible visions and he didn't say he x believed in it he just said he said x these are possible visions of how x Christians can visualize the Temptation x and when I ask them is it is this x something you believe in or not he said x he repeated this is possible ways that x Christians can visualize the Temptation x so I took it I didn't didn't want to x press the point I got as much x information as I needed one is that x Jesus was in one place all the time in x the wilderness exactly the way it is in x the gospel of Mark and he saw all these x Visions presented to him by the devil x that's one possible Vision the other is x that the devil and I don't know why the x that's a really x really nasty looking devil actually x transported them to all these places x and then finally and one that I find I x have found the fan number of Chris the x devians believing is that someone went x out into the desert x and presented all these ideas to Jesus x and planted these ideas in his head and x this is a picture of painting that takes x place actually in the cave that is where x the that Monastery of the Temptation is x built okay so I can dismiss the first x two x this one x and I tell you a fan number Krista x Dolphins believe this have believed it x as we'll see in a few minutes x uh this one is not x so clear to dismissed x okay x so x so let's take a look at the historic x perspective on this so at the earliest I x could find of someone writing about the x Temptation the Wilderness is uh uh good x old Robert Robbins what a what an author x he was he did so much so much materials x just so what what is the historic x perspective I mean the first thing I've x been able to find was um Robbins x 1868 and he says here his temptation in x the wilderness exhibits the lust of the x flesh the lust of the eyes and the pride x of life having existed in him as in any x other man in the Panorama of the world's x Glory which from long fasting he had a x naturally dreamed and seen as a vision x of abundance is seen by a hungry man's x eye in what sense would that fleshly x Glory have been to Temptation had he not x possessed the fleshly insects to desire x it the will to possess it yes and the x power to command it the devil attempted x Jesus was his flesh x the impure flesh the flesh he inherited x of Adam's Sinatra so clearly that was x him in 1868. okay let's take a look 18 x years I'm sorry 80 years later x 1876. uh brother Andrew says x in the crystal of imagined I would be x observed to speak of anyone being x tempted by actual transgression x especially Christ who did no sin x therefore the devil here whether an x individual or the impulses of the sinful x nature which Jesus is in common with the x rest of the work was tempted was clearly x not transgression which conclusion is x sufficient for the purpose of the x present argument x so x he expands on what Robert said and now x 1886 x this is beautiful x after his baptism Jesus was impelled by x the spirit and neighboring Wilderness x the purpose that he might be tempted of x the devil Paul says he was tempted in x all points like as we are yet without x sin his temptation in the wilderness x must therefore come into the category of x our experiences x hmm no man is tempted in this way x oh I'm saying uh just that once excludes x the popular idea that there was a x supernatural personal devil that x attempted Jesus no man has ever tempted x in this way but always by the x incitements of the flesh either x operating spontaneously Within x or presented to us an objective manner x by the suggestions of a person external x to ourselves the whole Narrative of the x Temptation shows it was a temptation of x the latter sword x a Temptation brought to bear by an x external tempter a person not the x popular devil so this is a total x contradiction of what he wrote In 1868. x and believe me when I run into crystals x have been arguing about this uh they x will if you're on one side you'll argue x 1868 if you're on the other side you're x logging 1886 and you'll say that and x here's the argument brother Robertson is x more mature understanding x realized that it had to be external x okay x and then CeCe Walker in 1904 the the x editor who succeeded uh Roberts in 1898 x he said after baptism came to Temptation x in the wilderness there is no doubt x certain difficulties in the x understanding of it but these we can x afford to hold in obeyance x it is a great mistake to become lost in x controversy over them to the obscuring x lessons the record is intended to convey x to us x the main points are clear as the son the x Lord Jesus was in all points tablet as x we are yet without sin and he overcame x through the word and so Robin Roberts x had changed his opinion and what Walker x was trying to do because this whole x argument on the atonement was brewing x then and unfortunately it's still x Brewing today and this whole issue of x internal external is one of the flash x points x now just uh for the sake of argument x here internal either external doesn't x matter that's how you can sum up those x four paragraphs x so let's take a look at x what we do I always find it really hard x to convince Chris Christian dolphins x that something they believe with passion x no matter how small the point is that x that it doesn't matter and we are really x really good at arguing about minutia x sometimes and the argument x turns out to be far worse than anything x we could possibly have believed and I x won't point to any specifics but I'm x sure you all have known examples in your x own head okay x uh the argument continued through the x 20s with the nineteen twenties uh x actions of the Berean split x and I I don't think there's any x being here that um many of you don't x know uh I'll just read after he quotes x from Hebrews he says being hungry after x 40 days fasting naturally his flesh from x broad nature would be for food he's in a x desert place where food is not available x what more natural propensities suggests x using the power so recently given a x coming as it was from the voice of x Heaven announcing him as God's beloved x Son a well-known brother recently clad x it is better not to understand quite who x the outside tempter was for outside he x must have been now that's about the x strongest statement and by the way x there's a lot more going through the x magazine I spent x about a dozen days looking through this x stuff I'm only quoting the ones that I x thought were right on point but there's x a lot more pro and con that has happened x over the years x uh solely x um who x wrote the famous book on ezekiel's x Temple again x [Music] x um he goes back to Walker's argument x whether there was a personal agent or x not x and I call that the either argument x and then as late as 1965 in the 1960s x about the time that x um x you know pretty close to the times when x probably uh x [Music] x I had you know I was just yeah I think I x just graduated with my PhD that year and x I remember reading this at the time x uh there was a letter to the editor who x disputed x um an earlier argument in the magazine x that year which claimed the Temptation x was internal and so he goes on to say uh x he's x this brother w.g Holton he cited Elvis x Israel where John Thomas said the x adversary went forth from the presence x of the Lord came to Jesus and then x assured assumed the character of an x angel of Light to him and he goes on to x quote also Kristen demonstrate and x Nazareth revisit of all very classic x standard Christadelphian works and x um he quotes all the ones that are in x favor but he ignored all the other ones x uh which not her in favor just x [Music] x um x this is the kind of stuff that if you x did this as a scientist you would be x drummed out of your profession x uh brother Mitchell uh uh just a little x bit later x um goes back to the either or argument x he was a master of internal conflicts of x Life perhaps it can be best illustrated x by reference to the temptation of the x Wilderness whether the devotation Came x From Within or without is immaterial so x I I want to tell um you got you have a x lot of really good speakers in your x Ecclesia and they speak at a lot of x other places x um I'm also it's just kind of a warning x I never ever talk about the atonement no x matter how much an Ecclesia asks me to x talk about it because I'm sure x to get in to this argument of how x Temptation actually comes about x um my favorite one and actually I think x one of the that's most x that is put in the most intelligent way x and that may be just because I always x thought a brother Alfred Norris is kind x of one of my heroes x um he said in x about a decade after brother Mitchell he x said to this view external there remains x only that some have regarded as a fatal x objection x that if Jesus could conceive such x thoughts to stay with the thoughts of x sin this would make him a sinner in mind x if not indeed x but to this it must be answered that if x Jesus could not have conceived such x thoughts then he could not have endured x Temptation either x for the external tempted to make x suggestions which make no appeal to x one's mind brings no temptation at all x and if Jesus mind have been able to x ponder The Temptations and reject them x then it could have been done so in the x absence of any outside temperature at x all x this really follows from what we've x already concluded about human nature and x involves no offense whatsoever against x the Integrity of Jesus Christ I think x that's pretty beautiful and and x I think that I especially like what he's x saying that even if it was external he x had to perceive what Temptation was in x order to reject it x okay so again we end up x uh with the internal either x internal or external either or internal x uh now I think you already know my x choice is x pretty much I need to say I agree with x brother alfanaras I think it's just x beautifully put and it's certainly x something that I hope you know if you x want some of these slides remember the x references uh that just that you don't x forget it okay so here's some some x conclusions x um let's deal with the Skeptics first x the scriptures state that Moses spent 40 x days and nights without bread or water x there's no equivocation obviously Moses x survived and did so did Jesus how was x this possible I'm not sure we should x worry about it x because this scripture answers Luke 18 x 27. but he said what is impossible with x man is possible with God x so if we're going to question surviving x a mere 40 days and 40 nights with our x food of water and say that's impossible x then then we reject the resurrection x yeah x that that our decayed dust bodies can be x Resurrected x I personally believe that x there's no problem with that I mean x whatever is written in the book of life x whether it's our DNA code or x uh or our various x [Music] x sayings through our lives or whatever x God can do it x and he proved it by the miraculous x powers that he focused to his son x okay so now was it external x well you can make an argument that these x scriptures show external evidence for x sin because obviously Eve had no Eve had x no possible conception x whatsoever of sin and so in in that x first instance x an external attempt that was absolutely x essential because Eve had no prior x experience of anything and that was not x the case with Jesus x and was it internal x the problem with this describes the x Jesus internal rebellious thoughts x against God and many find that difficult x to accept x well x what we're finding from what we read in x scriptures is x he had planted in his mind every answer x to those internal thoughts and I think x one of the great lessons of the x Temptation in the wilderness is that if x the word of God is implanted in our own x minds to that debt that when some x temptation is visualized before us x whether internal or external we need to x be able to draw out x those verses those lessons that God has x taught us x to fight off that x so it does not become actionable in sin x and I think of one of the greatest x things that christadophians have if we x live by it and do it is the daily x readings because I I know myself I've x been probably doing them now I'm 84. I x think I started when I was a teenager x um x it's really helped me at times to x remember x something x that I needed to remember to x push off something that I should not x have been doing I wish I could say it x was always 100 successful that's simply x would not be true but there is enough x enough times that I needed that that x memory that that verse that thing that x said to John please remember this verse x and don't do it x finally since we've been debating this x for over 100 years as we have with a few x other difficult issues it is in my x humble opinion accepting ether is not x such a bad idea if you can get the x people on both sides to realize that x they don't have to shoot each other to x Grant the idea that maybe the other x fellow x has a point of view that needs to be x considered x in my own personal problem with either x is the external is that one has to x visualize a perceive why did the x scriptures not say something about where x that internal external I'm sorry x external Temptation came from x um x in the absence of evidence x it is very difficult to prove a crime x and then that's just good jurisprints x but the most important lesson we learned x from the Temptation in the wilderness is x it teaches us how to overcome Temptation x that's more important than arguing x internal or external if the word of God x is engraved on our horn personal one we x can draw on it to kill Temptation in the x brentis leading us into sin now I I I'm x sure that you will share with me this x I'm easily tempted internally or x externally because that's the way we're x built and I think I think you find later x Jesus is tempted externally by Peter x and he has to say to Peter get thee x behind me Satan x so Jesus was faced with external x Temptations which are very clearly x spelled out in Scripture