“Spiritual but not religious.”

Transcript

uh well uh good evening everyone um as Jim said tonight's uh subject spiritual but not religious I'll give you a little backstory as why I selected this uh maybe unorthodox topic but um so I'm on this group text thread with about seven or eight high school friends of mine for I don't know the last six seven years or so and uh I don't I don't respond to it very often and um it's usually all political and nonsense type stuff so as usually don't anything there's a few times where I've been like uh you know maybe I'll throw out U you know God rules in the Kingdom of men you know there's a lot of election stuff or uh you know putting out your trust in man but but I was like no I'm not going to I'm not going to do that yet I I know I I only had one shot these group of guys so I was like no I'm not gonna not going to do that yet so then about two months ago um these two guys were arguing about um genders and homosexuality and one of them say you know God says there's only two genders and God's against homosexuality and the other guy responded with well you know no one really knows about how many genders there are and um you know that was then with homosexuality but you know maybe things times are different and if the churches changed their rules more people would start to go and I have a niece who's lesbian and she's really nice and so uh you know I still I was not going to enter the conversation at that point and then um another gentleman responded with a pretty lengthy uh post about religion and uh he says boy this isn't a spot that we usually go but let me let me give you my two cents on religion and um you know he he start out with you know he believes in God he believes God loves everyone um he believed that God was the creator the two genders but he said you can't trust the Bible uh because the Bible is written by man and man is fallible um it's open to private

interpretation um he said it goes on to say you know all beliefs are fine um the only the meaning of life is the pursuit of

happiness so at that point I decided I can't let this go and and so I I responded but he he finished with um you know I I grew up as a Catholic but I don't identify with the Catholic faith anymore I consider myself to be spiritual but not religious and I said boy that is like the eighth ninth time someone has uh said that to me in in discussions and and and talks about religion or or they go with the uh the the sister belief if you will the unreligious but not affiliated meaning um I'm religious I'm Christian usually but I don't feel the need to belong to any one of those particular Christian faith

um and so really in the end there's not much difference between the two so I I decided you know I'm thinking about those conversations and I'm like I don't even know how I responded to when someone said that to me and I said I got to I got to take a closer look at this because I need to have an answer for when the next time someone brings that up in discussion so that was the reason why I kind of started to dig into it and I said well might as well make a class of it uh so that's what we're going to look at tonight what do they mean when they say um spiritual but not

religious um you know what's the problem with it is it is it scriptural why is it why are people attracted to it and um you know how might we answer uh to this so that's what we're going to attempt to do tonight um I'm hoping to leave some time at the end uh where you guys can share your experiences cuz I've told Ted to a few brothers that said oh yeah I've I've heard that one before too so I'd like to hear your experiences and maybe how you responded uh to well so please uh you know do share your experiences there

so um this is taken from the Pew research they do a lot of study on religion in America and they say that uh seven in tenuous adults uh describe themselves as spiritual in some way including 22% who are spiritual but not religious goes on to say Regent decades Americans are become less likely to identify with an organized religion however belief in spirit or a spiritual realm Beyond this world is widespread even among those who don't consider themselves

religious uh so that's a you know that's a pretty you know seven and 10 and spiritual in some way but they they don't want to be considered religion so if we kind of take a definition I found this definition of religion thought it was pretty good um it's a word used to uh reference uh to refer to expressions of Devotion to God or or Gods primarily through acts of worship prayers sacrifice uh attending Services Etc there's an adherence to a set of beliefs rules practices and rituals often containing a moral code of conduct it operates on faith a faith that is never questioned of course you know that last part there um you know when we're talking to people about our faith we this is the point where we're trying to get them to question their own faith right we're okay with our young people coming to us and questioning their faith as long as they're seeking out the matter if they come and they say hey is baptism you know is it really necessary we'll say hey we'll check into it find out and we're quite comfortable with them doing that because we know what they're going to find if they're sincere in their search for the truth they'll find it and then it'll just solidify their faith right that's what it does when we dig deeper to uh to convince ourselves is this really and then boom yes yes it

is so this is uh this is this these are some quotes from a book that uh promotes this um spiritual but not religious and this is just a few things that they have to say uh spirituality is the study of uh spirit or Consciousness religion is pretty much a prepackaged belief system that seems satis seems satisfactory for a lot of people uh religion is a blind faith to a pre-made God of course we wouldn't again we we don't you know Blind Faith stuff there are many Christian faiths that promote um Blind Faith um we do not you know people that were part of the Catholic Church would tell me oh you're just supposed to believe and have a question well well that's not us we do not have a blind um Faith a friend of mine we were talking we we I was teaching him some Bible classes and we talked about the trinity came up and he says no my church does not believe in the Trinity I said yeah it does and I said why don't you ask your pastor and um uh long story short he he met with some friends that go to that and they were going to explain to him the Trinity now I had already schooled them a little bit and I said don't let them give you any analogies like you know the Trinity is like a tripod or the Trinity is like water it comes in various forms I said tell them you want to see scripture and you want to see a lot of it so he said no they did exactly what you said and then when I said show told me the scripture uh the woman told him that you have to have Blind Faith so it is incorporated into many Christian religions that you just supposed to believe but we we don't believe that um it's a ritualistic practice fed to the masses on the other hand spirituality is the very definition of what it is to be human we are all Spiritual Beings having a human

experience it's a trendy phrase people often use to describe their belief that they don't need organized religion to live a life of faith of course we know where faith comes from and that comes from the reading the scriptures but uh the spiritual but not religious don't feel the need to go to the Bible necessarily you know you might also hear this one a little little differently is I don't need a book to tell me how to be good because I'm naturally good of course none of that we subscribe to so when they are um you know kind of coming up with a definition of uh

spiritual uh they say you know we're Seekers we're constantly learning from Life Experiences growing along the way it's a journey in search of personal

truths they give this analogy they they they say that religion is like a stagnant Pond but to be spiritual that's like a river it's always flowing and changing one size does not fit all each person has the freedom to create their own path and their own way to connect to their greater power which is often how they refer to God sometimes they'll use God but more more than likely it's to this greater power this Supreme Being whatever it may be but we know you don't create your own path right let God guide us down the path but this is a create your own way they respect all forms of belief thoughts Faith because they they can all help us grow I remember um seeing something written by

um uh Dawkins right the famous um atheist and you know he said about the Bible he said the Bible's fine I don't got a problem with it's got a lot of life lessons in it but so do all other books of religion uh books of philosophy books from poets we should take them all one not one is above the other so this is kind of their their thought process it's a personal journey of understanding and there's no need to conform to any type of laws or behavioral

guidelines the sbnr group um there's a few other facts from um from the Pew research report I believe uh they say that only 20% believe in God as described by the Bible now if you add also the religious but not affiliated group to that it only goes up to 30% so those two groups combined only 30% believe in the in God as the Bible describes it um now I would imagine that has to do with that you know the Old Testament God who's mean and uh he's always murdering people so I imagine you know that's not the vision that they want to have I'm guessing that why it's so low uh 42% say religion causes Division and

intolerance um maybe you've heard you know hey religion causes all wars that's what my cousin told me once because he said I tell you what I don't like about religion it causes Wars and I just questioned him like I go does it really I go I can't I go World War I World War II Vietnam War Korean War which ones and he goes you know what I'm talking about so I don't know I mean eventually you know you go back far enough there'll be some religious wars but nothing uh nothing in recent memory only 15% believe that religion is helpful to society the spnr group is very anti-organized

religion just 2% regularly attend any type of worship service compared to 40% who claim to be righteous religious uh only 4% belong to a spiritual Community uh compared to 39% of the religious group that are involved in a community uh like

church only 21% pray uh daily compared to 64% of those who deem themselves to be religious um again they they're praying to a god they they don't

know and when asked you know what it what does it mean to you to be

spiritual 72% said to be connected to my inner self well 80% of the religious responded with being spiritual means to be connected to God so you know already I think we can see what the spiritual but not religious is all about well it's all about me it's all about self um and that's what we're going to find um that's what we're going to find

out so why are people so attracted to it it's a heavy moving uh people are trending this way I actually had a call from a friend of mine this morning who's one of the individuals that I his wife actually who I had this conversation with and she gave me the uh well I'm religious but don't need to be Affiliated to any particular faith and so I said Hey listen I got to go I can't talk all day I got to prepare for this Bible class and he said well what are you teaching about and and I mentioned it to him this religious but and he says oh that's very popular I hear that quite a bit I said oh that's that's interesting so made a little discussion about that but you know why are people attracted well I think the big one is there's no responsibility I'm not making a commitment right the flesh doesn't like to be responsible right if we believe that there is a Creator then you know we're our lives are responsible to him and the flesh doesn't like that we only want to be responsible to ourselves so by saying I'm not religious then it removes that

commitment and then they can say hey I'm openminded right that's pretty that's a pretty good thing that's looked upon positively in today's society if you say that you're open-minded people are like yeah that's good me too or they say I'm enlightened right that's what the woke movement was

Enlightenment but we're looking for a different type of Enlightenment than that they you know we got many beliefs many spiritual book many different spiritual leaders it's not just the Bible and Jesus you know we're not confined just to that we many many anything

is fine so their beliefs change like the wind right there's a saying it says if you believe everything you believe you really believe nothing right you got no Foundation where you going to plant your flag on what you believe in right that's why we're fine with our young people saying yeah look into it you're not quite sure we get this right look into that belief and you'll find it and then you'll build a foundation on a rock right

the other thing there's no negative stigma that is attached to religion which is you know Rel to be to say you're religious today it's you know maybe this hinders Us in you know inviting people to our faith uh telling them about our faith because it has what one uh article said it has an ick Factor i c ick or gross factors like he's religious I don't want to talk to that guy right that's how it's kind of perceived in society so maybe that's one of the things that you know maybe prevents us from speaking up when we should be and you know it's arrogant for you to say you've got the truth who are you that say your religion is right out of all the other ones well you know I've heard that in Christadelphian circles maybe we shouldn't say we have the truth of course we should are we not confident that we know the way of self ation right are there many many religions and it's all good with God does it not matter what we believe now that's not what we believe right one body one hope one Lord One Faith one

baptism another reason is there's no baggage from the religious groups I.E the Catholic church and the sex abuse right I and I can see why someone who was Catholic would want to separate them I don't want to be associated with that sex abuse use stuff but there's you know there can be is there baggage following Jesus Christ you know how about those first century Believers you that I think they had baggage right following Christ right many were they were persecuted they were killed set on fire right made human torches of um and we're told Jesus says you know if the world hates you remember it hated me first that's baggage right don't worry he says they will hate you because you don't think like like they do right we we have um we have different goals different priorities in our life than the world has and when the when when when they don't line up the world doesn't like you right birds of a feather flock together and we're going to be different and he's saying that's okay so was

I and another reason is it takes away the guilt of not being religious according to one article that only 4% of Americans identify as being atheist and it's because you know that's like you don't want to say that because Americans hold a negative view of atheists they think they lack morals and values they deem to be

untrustworthy so this kind of solves a lot of problems if I just say I'm spiritual but not religious means okay forget all the religious stuff I'm away from all that and guess what I'm not saying I'm

atheist uh so I I take away that negative guilt I think another thing that it does is they hope to end the conversation when I look back at the conversations I had I can't remember what my response was and I think it did end the conversation and that's what they're looking to do because they know if we're talking religion eventually we're going to get to the Bible and they're pretty ignorant of the Bible and so they don't want to go there they don't want to look ignorant so if they can just throw out a a phrase and that ends the conversation then they've saved their ego their pride and we'll we'll talk a bit about that in a

moment so this keep seeking keep growing keep questioning that's kind of their uh SLO slogan right we're just always looking we're always seeking we're always

questioning uh you know we're told seek and you shall find and if you if you're constantly seeking and you're con constantly questioning well then you're never going to be doers of the word and that's what we're supposed to be doers of the word not hearers only right this is a lesson for ourselves right you're only deceiving yourself if you think if you think that like we know the truth we've already found it our job now is to be doers of the word right our faith in

action so another one of the tenants uh is you know you know it's not about the destination but the

journey right see always when you're always seeking you're really not seeking at all right because we're told that you know seeking you shall find and guess what when we find the Journey's over there's no need to keep seeking because we've already found the truth we we're not continuing to try to find the truth we're continuing to grow that's one of the things they say continue to grow yeah okay we could say that we're trying to continue to grow to be more like God to develop that Godly character and that's a lifelong Mission CU you know no one's walking in on a Sunday morning saying hey guess what brothers and sisters I nailed it yeah I'm just like God I've got that you know God character down pat all set right so that's a continual process but when you know we're not always seeking and the destination it's about the journey not the destination that's the kingdom of God see they have no there isn't much of a a focus on the future everything is focused on the present the here and the now with the spiritual but not religious type of thinking and boy you take away the kingdom of God you take away the resurrection you take away eternal life and who's there on a Sunday I mean look what Paul says right if in this life only we have hope in Christ where of all men most miserable right if if there was no such thing as the kingdom of God or the resurrection or eternal life no one's at

meeting and in Proverbs it says Where is where there is no vision the people perish they don't have a vision they don't have a destination there's no clear goal there's no direction there's no purpose of

life the people perish

this is just a little quote that I stumbled upon but I I thought was pretty good it says the human soul without God is restless lonely dissatisfied constantly seeking never finding such people do not dare to be alone with their thoughts they are constantly looking for something to anth notize if I'm pronouncing that correctly the pain of loneliness so they see diversion through a NeverEnding quest of Thrills pleasure

entertainment or Conquest that is the story of humanity and it's so true isn't it we know people with you know you don't have God in your life there's a big void and you need to fill it and what people are doing is they're trying to fill it through pleasure Thrills entertainment what they're trying to do with something that we know is absolutely impossible they don't know it's impossible so they got to try to figure it out the hard way it's impossible to please the Flesh and that's what they

do so the lesson for us right faith without works is dead you know when James is describing religion you know devotion worship to God he says religion pure and undefiled before our God and Father is this to visit to look after fatherless and the widows and their affli

and to keep oneself unspotted from the

world so what James is saying is this outward show of worship which in his day was considered to be a positive it's not in our day any outwood show is frowned upon hey keep that religion to yourself don't shove it down my throat in his day it was okay but he's saying it's empty unless it's followed by works right so we need the worship of God and these acts of

charity and the spnr group and the religious but not affiliate they're void of any type of worship or devotion other than to

themselves in one article it said that this group um is less charitable they're less likely to volunteer less likely to help out their Community compared to those of the religious group so there's no talk of works of putting that faith into Works kind

actions and of course this you know Jesus is Calling out the teachers of the law and the Pharisees you know you you give a tenth of the spices but you neglected the more important matters of the law Justice mercy and faithfulness you should have practiced the latter without neglecting the former right they adhere to the rules of the religion but they missed the charity so you know this is a lesson for us it's you know we have the truth now let's put that into action right let's develop that Godly character let's show it forth let's follow the example of Christ and we've got to remain unspotted uh from the world right therefore come out from from them and be separate touch no clean thing and I will receive you I will be a father to you and you will be my sons and daughters you know separation from an unbelieving world is a requirement of being a child of God it's not just by my natural birth right it's you know we're going to separate ourselves from the world from its ideologies from the way it thinks right we get our guidance from

God in Romans of course and uh be not conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind and we know there's only one way to renew the mind right we are mind to going to replace the connal with the spiritual the only way to do that is put the mind of God the word of God right in our minds and uh we we do that of course by reading our scriptures and we'll I'll talk about that in a

second in Isaiah it says I Delight greatly in the Lord my soul rejoices in my God for he has clothed me with garments of righteousness I wonder what those garments of righteousness are well Paul tells us for as many of you has put on have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ right so all of us have put on Christ in baptism we have those garments of

righteousness right so now we've got to leave we got to keep those garments unspotted from the polluting influences of the world tough to do I know right we live in the world but not of it but we want to be influenced by the word of God we don't want to be influenced by our neighbors by world L those things that they're trying to appeal to us we don't want to do

that and Jesus says um to the Ecclesia and Sardis right there is a few names in Sardis that have not defiled their garments right it's not the whole Ecclesia he doesn't say all the old Ecclesia and most of the Ecclesia he says but a few in that Ecclesia they shall walk with me in white for they are worthy so that's you know our responsibility now that we've put on Christ it's now to um remain unspotted from the

world so Bible reading all right so this is an article from Christianity Today an article is titled The Greatest Story never read right it says the concurrent declines of biblical literacy and biblical morality right to disregard the source to neglect the Bible is to remove the chief Authority on which our faith is built we're left vulnerable unable to check the teachings of those who invite us to follow incapable of charting a true course past sirene voices calling from treacherous Islands such as TV programs popular books enchanting prophecies displayed on colorful websites surely it's no coincidence that biblical literacy and biblical morality appear who have plummeted simultaneously and we we already know this right we go back and look at the example of Israel every time they turn away from God where does the morality go it goes right down they go hand in hand the article goes on to say we've shifted from being a nation which people believed that right and wrong morality was defined by the Bible now we live in a nation where only 42% believe the Bible is true accurate relevant where the largest share of adults believe there's no absolute moral truth that all truth is determined by the individual and on what basis do they determine their truth primarily emotions if it feels like it's right or appropriate thing to do or say or believe then that becomes the course of action right so boy that you know we got to get out there and preach right but this puts us handicapped doesn't it if because you know you come across someone and you want to start talking and they say listen I do not believe in the Bible well we might as well just pack up and go and walk away because if we can't have a solid basis for anything there's not no need to have a conversation and we get people saying no it's whatever you feel we can't you can't trust there's no absolute truth you can't trust the Bible that's pretty

tough because you know those who say they're faithful and yet if they don't know the Bible because we know where faith comes from comes from hearing the word of God so this is a little chat over here of the frequency of Bible reading now this is a chart from those who are church goers these are people that are going to church on Sunday and look at how often they're reading the Bibles only 133% read it daily 28% never read it 30% say they read it once a year you might as well never read it right that's 58% of basically are never reading their Bible of churchgoers so of course you know the others you know they're not reading it at all right 7% monthly weekly that's you know when you go into meeting on Sunday um you know I don't know I it'd be interesting to see what what would those numbers look like in the Brotherhood there are times for me it's it is only weekly you know I've been spending time on this class you know tomorrow uh I'm going to need a break I don't know how long that break's going to last it might be a few days before I pick up the scriptures to my own shame right might not be till Sunday that when the readings am me that's when I get it but we know that you know we need that Daily

Bread so this was an interesting article paganism and Witchcraft making a comeback witchcraft which includes wiah you know you know what a Wiccan is they they uh they worship nature uh the Sun and the Moon the seasons

they have a goddess of fertility right does this sound familiar right this is what Israel was doing way back when right this stuff is still out there magic right it say it's one of the fastest growing spiritual paths in America see when you're seeking your own path unguided by God this is where you might end up this is the danger you might end up in one of these things paganism

magic um and it you know it reminds me of what Paul writes in Romans because when they knew God they glorified him not as God neither were thankful but vain in their imaginations and their foolish heart was darkened professing themselves to be wise they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like Mortal men Birds animals and reptiles they exchanged the truth for a lie and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator I mean I found that to be fascinating that witchcraft magic making a

comeback so you know the spiritual but natural uh but not religious they kind of think like um you know it's with you know it's thought-provoking it's this new age type of thinking you know I'm a free thinker I think for myself and I think these things are all positive that's not new at all it's humanism it's putting man above God it's carnal thinking right and and carnal think has always been there right and just like sin It comes naturally to us when doubt creeps into our minds humanistic thinking is right there waiting to share its thoughts to convince us it's okay to deceive us and this is what the carnal mind does we know the carnal mind is a problem Maybe not today maybe you know sometimes we're super strong but in a moment of weakness that's when we can get in trouble right just like Eve the garden remember she first proclaims the truth but when another idea is introduced a more appealing idea appealing to the flesh then she's deceived and we can easily deceive ourselves and we know that you know this type of thinking carnal thinking it has no future for they that are after The Flesh do mind the things of the flesh but they that are after the spirit the things of the spirit for to be carnally minded is death but to be spiritually minded is life and

peace okay so this this is guy he's an actor maybe you recognize him um you know when I read his little statement here on religion um you know I I just see pride uh he says you know I'm not religious but I'm spiritual I have my own relationship with a being that I consider to be everywhere all and everything I don't need a church a synagogue or a mosque I don't need to kneel I don't need to stand up I don't need to be hanging from a thread think what he means for that is you know I don't have to give any Consciousness to what I'm doing I can do as I please I'm not bowing down to anybody I don't need to follow any rules right and in its pridefulness and when I think of those individuals that I've talked to I would say Pride was a characteristic that I would describe for seven of the eight of them

um they would be considered um very successful in the western world because they have money uh from wealthy to extremely wealthy um and and they're the ones who would throw this type of thing out there and pride is um Pride's very um you know when we think of sin perhaps it's you know stealing it's uh murder it's you know one of the lusting type of uh sins and maybe Pride falls down the list a little bit but it is a very dangerous one because really what the

spiritual but not religious and the religious but I don't need an affiliation what they're really saying is I am my own God I come up with my own rules I say what's right and wrong it's all about me I am my own God and so Pride you know we've got these these quotes

from another time from the scriptures here right Pride goes Before Destruction a hearty spirit before a fall you know and Psalms it says he guides the humble in what is right and teaches them his way well why doesn't he do that with the proud because they won't listen right the humble realize they need

help Jesus says for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled and he who humbles himself will be exalted so Pride it really poses a significant stumbling block I think for someone who wants to come to the knowledge of the truth right you got to admit I need help I don't know I need someone to teach me I need guidance I've made mistakes I'm a sinner right I can't do it myself oh these are all the things that the prideful don't like to say um you know and so Pride can be a problem for us it clouds are judgment it leads us away from the humility that God desires from us right the humble realize the limitations the proud don't they think they can do anything and overcome anything but the humble realize we're nothing we seek God's guidance because we don't know the way and we acknowledge the role that God has had in our lives all the gifts that we're given no matter what type of accomplishment we have

you know we've been given the great gift of the Gospel what are you going to do with it that's what God wants to know I've given you this gift of the Gospel what will you do with it will you bury it in the ground I've given you a a a gift um you know you're compassionate will you use it to serve the Ecclesia I've given you maybe it's wealth what are you going to do with it what you going to do with it to serve your brothers and sisters to help people out how are you going to do these gifts we recognize all these things things come from but for the proud uh it's difficult and you know as you get older like the guys I'm talking about they're all in their 50s what are they going to say all my life I've been going astray telling me everything I did was wrong now I got to turn I have to admit I've made a huge mistake you know that might be one of the things that keeps people from you know people that have left the truth and want to come back it's Pride I think because they got a I have to admit it's a mistake little do they know we don't care we're thrilled to have them come back walk through the door I know it took a lot of courage to come back in there come on back in and yet they're too

prideful so prideful thoughts that we might have when these things enter our minds right I'm right my opinion is better I'm worthy I don't deserve this I deserve better I don't even need help from God right those prideful thoughts can enter our minds and you know they've got coner quences because they develop characteristics that we're not looking to try to develop sorrow and self-pity anger bitterness Envy jealousy and a hard heart towards God right so the whole spiritual but not religious uh is nothing new about it they were doing it in the days of Israel right Israel says well there was no King in those days Israel had a king it was God but they rejected him and they said we'll just do do what's right in our own eyes it's the same thing it just comes in a fancier package now it says that it was spiritual but not religious it's the same thing it's always been there Adam right Cain right Cain wanted to do it his own way right you look at all those examples lamech Nebuchadnezzar on and on it

goes so how might we how might we

answer to this um

so one is you know we talked about they have no destination right the destination is important to them when pressed on the afterlife uh 54% well Heaven and Hell or some sort of other realm and 43% said reincarnation so really they have no idea they have no

destination so of course what people you know hey Jesus says I must preach the good news of the Kingdom it's why I was sense it was important right and of course we're instructed to do the same thing Paul went out and he preached the gospel and those things that concern the Lord Jesus Christ so we got to give him a destination and of course all people want to know what's in it for me right that's pretty natural what's in this deal for me again like I said you take away the kingdom of God the resurrection eternal life I don't know who's that meeting anymore

so that's one thing but sometimes after you do that you might not get a

response and sometimes it's give not that which is holy unto the dogs neither cast your Pearls Before Swine lest they trample them under their feet and turn again and lerate you so there are some that just don't want to hear it and don't waste these Pearls of the Kingdom unto the unclean because they don't appreciate the sacrifice of Jesus they're quite comfortable in the life they have and have absolutely no consideration for anything else and they they just don't care so wipe off the dust of your feet and that can be a tough that can be a tough lesson to learn um and into to app why CU you always want to go no there's always you know so I I had a friend you know was talking to him and he you put his hand up and he said stop I born Irish Catholic I'm going to die Irish Catholic I don't want to hear it I said okay and then uh you know a few years later he said you know something always stuck with me something came up and we started talking he goes when you when you said about infant baptism he said you know you told you know you got to believe and be baptized he because that made sense to me you know what does it the baby believe right he go that that that made some sense so that ended up leading to a few Bible classes and

uh you know then I met with his wife and um we had decided I would go over on a Monday and would have a Bible class and um she put the kaios on that and I received a text from her an hour later and he said yeah next week's not going to work from us then we'll go on the way to Florida I'll I'll be in touch when I get back so uh I knew that was at the end of that and um I couldn't get in touch with him uh for quite some time after that and finally I did and I said Hey listen you've been avoiding me like plague I go you don't want to talk about this stuff you won't I I won't bring it up again um and he's like no no it's just going to take me some time I said whatever you know um you know so we throw it out there and you know at first I was like oh those seeds are getting planted and then like no it's they're getting you know trampled maybe a little bit so that's a tough one uh to uh to do but you know you give it a go and if they don't want to hear it you move on so that's what I have

um okay so yeah we got plenty of time you know if anyone's had any experience if I assume uh many of you when speaking about this you've heard this before or someone has um you know kind of mentioned that to you um you know any experiences that you would like to share that would be great