Praise the Lord

Transcript

jumping in and out of this slideshow all right uh so as Dad said this is a followup to the last Wednesday night class I did which was um talked about him generally and particularly focused on the green book and so I thought it would be important to have a follow-up discussion about the PT because we've had it for a few years now I'm not exactly sure how long nobody seems to have to remember specifically when we got it if anyone has that exact year nice to know um we've had it for a few years um and we've only really used a couple songs from it in Boston so far as I'm I can count it uh we use four PTL hymns in Boston um there are other you know hymns you'll hear around like at um ecbs or weekends or anything like that as far as unless I'm forgetting anything I think it's just these four that see um semi-regular rotation in Boston

um obviously we don't have to use any more PTL hymns or anything um but when I was talking to people about their favorite hymns uh people brought up the PTL a lot

um people really like these four or other hyms in the book

so I you know I don't think we're not avoiding using the rest of the PTL because we don't like it just because people aren't used to it and don't really haven't built up any familiarity with it and it has a lot of good hymns to offer that we can add to our worship you know strengthen our

eclesia so think it's important that we uh have a discussion about it look through it see what the strengths and weaknesses are of it as a hm book and uh if we're going to have a PTL in every Pew we might as well get to know what's actually in the

book so first of all um where does it come from what is it this is the hottest conf conference in the UK it's a Christadelphian weekend that also acts as a charity uh they're the ones that originally produced the PTL and as quoting from their website music has always been a key thread running through the hoton weekend over the years we have produced a number of music books for use in churches initially catering for singing in youth groups music resources have grown gradually into the praise the Lord project there are now two PTL song books both featuring more contemporary praise songs is complement the Timeless hymns the chrisel himm

book so the PTL is meant as a complimentary book to the green book not as a replacement or anything like that but an addition uh they mentioned talking about there being two PTL uh song books uh which gets a little confusing um as I understand it there's an original version of the PTL with 130 hymns released in 19 1993 they then released a revised Edition in 2000 with 170 more songs for a total of 300 uh that's the book that we have or at least we have a reprint of it there's also a second supplemental book called DL 2016 just 37 additional

HS I'm a little hazy on the details with this and the website's not entirely clear so feel free to jump in if I got something wrong here or I didn't mention something

something

uh PTL gives us a wider variety of hymns different styles and in addition to HS we already have uh New England we're only really familiar with the green book uh but around the globe other books are quite

common as mentioned the PTL 2016 alongside the PTL are welln the other two most wellknown are probably the two worship books uh worship one and worship two known as the purple book and um the orange book

respectively um which are made those two are made up of entirely new songs by

christadelphians

um people who made those two books are releasing a third book next year just in case you want to know which will be blue as I heard yesterday apparently we have the purple book in like a cabinet somewhere in the Ecclesia

so I guess we do that later we do we have several of the purple books in in a draw I'm I'm not sure how many I don't know if Phil knows how many but there's a bunch of

men there's around a dozen

okay we as far as I know we've never used it or I don't know if anybody's ever played a himm out of it that not that I know

of so talking about the PTL H specifically today as the only on I know um just so people know um in terms of recordings of the PTL hymns there a few on hopen stone.org that Phil has put up there and there are um mostly where the resource that I found that is the most uh PTL hymns uh the whest database of them is the WCF foundation.org I don't know if anywhere else that has extensive recordings uh but if you know love to hear about it uh some people have preferences about what kind of HS we should play during service which is fine but first and foremost we should know what's actually in the book or make you know

so what kind of HS are in the PTL first of all there are plenty of HS that would just fit right into the green book um inste all new style hymns a lot of them are in you know standard British Carol style or various other hymns that would um you wouldn't even notice if somebody just brought it out of the green book it wouldn't seem out of

place

well we'll move on for now all these are links but we don't need to go to those at the moment um PT also includes some classic hymns that we don't have in the green book which is Amazing Grace we in my lamp which is better known as sing Hosanna but a friend we have in JS this better or worse um it's also got some Christmas

hymns don't

have the pil has of various Styles including a lot of Jewish style hymns um Buble written brag time and couple that are more Jazzy and plenty of other

Styles um most of the hymns are in more sort of a modern style uh maybe it has a chorus just the lyrics are a lot you know more modern as it were there just a few examples

through this

here there are plenty of songs that would fit more that are used a lot at weekends such like that because they're short easy to learn um simple and they're

good uh if there's one big Achilles heel of the P using the PTL as a um hm book is that a lot of the hymns are very short um so short you can run through them even twice and it take a minute not all of them certainly it can make you know trying to search out individual song a

tricky so I guess like to ask is there anyone who's tried using PTL him books and just him and just um had trouble finding one that actually worked for the him book or just not uh Tred out

yet

I haven't Josh but um that's why I want I want to learn a little bit more about it so it's this class is great to kind of familiarize myself with some of the hymns and I I would like to use it more going

forward let's go on I agree with Jason i' I've picked out a few as postludes uh from time to time in fact uh some people say I play the PTL postludes too often um but it play them because they're different because the you know some of the Melodies are uh are quite good but there's no doubt about the fact that one of the challenges when you look at a him and think about playing it on a Sunday morning you know some of them are just really short um you could always you know say well we'll go we'll run through it twice but that's definitely a challenge when you go uh digging into some of the PTO

songs and some of the PTO hymns uh work fine if use Trace but some just don't fit um you know you'll play it once it's not the kind of him that can really be repeated work a lot of them as say here very good very short I'll play one or two here play this

one can you hear the audio for

this a little

bit turn up I don't think turning up the sound of Peter is going to

help that's better yeah we can hear

that let me

be yours and yours

alone may my will fall

ever

be ever more your

own never let my heart grow

C

never let me

go and the

father let be be

yours and

yours

so getting cover by the box here it's a rather pretty hymn but as you can tell it only took about a minute and um that's not on I'll be using these a lot more Josh now that I know they're so

short I'm down with the short

ones I think that was Butchie singing actually nice job but yeah it's not all that unlike some of the old anthems we still have in the green book that are very brief hymns yeah you can use them you know you just probably don't want to use multiple in the same service certainly just you know people like the HS they would like them to last more than 30 seconds each um yes maybe need to balance those out yeah I think some people have a thought that um the PTL is substantially different from the green book in terms of what hymns are allowed in but the green book has a lot of hymns that really aren't easy to fit into a service either it's got a lot of marches which are pretty tricky to F to a service plenty hymns that just aren't meant for it that are meant for weddings or other events so having a hbook that's full of different stuff is not unusual for using the

service possibly you could um there are plenty of inclusions that have four HS during a service so maybe um when you're going to use a BTL use two I don't remember when exactly they put the fourth hymn separ out I think

um what is it does um what's what eclesia um New England uses for HS is that um

con

I'm not absolutely sure but I certainly seen ecclesius use four hymns I've seen ecclesius use more than four uh hymns

um but sometimes right after memorial service they'll sing A Hymn and then you'll have some closing statements and uh then another hymn

um if if you were you know saying oh well let's let's uh add some PTL hymns in um I think Steve has actually done this before where he said we're GNA sing an extra hymn today uh to learn a new hymn I don't think I don't have a problem with it I don't know if anybody else does but um I think Steve has done that a couple times before and it's um it doesn't doesn't hurt anything by any means and like you say a lot of them are fairly short so adding an extra hymn that's one minute long is not exactly dragging out your

service one idea um Josh one idea would be uh uh after the announcements and before the opening prayer like you could squeeze another hem in there a short one bit nicely I think

sure plenty of good ones short ones in here just picking out another here um this is a person one I like it might be tricky to fit in but it's sort of like um what's it called was it for you that flash is w and sore and that it's a much more uh Eerie and somber hymn

stay

me remain here with

me

PR

and stay with

me

remain with

me

and and

pray

with

me

with

and

PR stay with

me remain here with

me

and

PR it's obviously not exactly your sort of standard hymn it's a very different um kind name you can add to your repertoire even as you see there though uh they repeated several times and it only lasted a minute or two I had to learn no but it's a very cool sound and it may fit your exhortation not going to fit every exitation certainly to work for

that

so check

here yeah but not every hymn In the hym book is anything you know particularly fast plenty of them are of a perfectly normal length um to use in our service that you know would either fit Ron or our new style and are long enough have enough to say you know um some these pel hymns may have a nice message but very short lyrics Simple lyrics some of them are uh more poetic I feel sell hymns um I'll play this one this one a bit longer though it's back

here

to the

quiet in the of

the

stand in

a is my

strength to come that is to

share

and in the father

will

and by

father

to

theet

the

I my

heart to

the

Jesus I don't know why that's

like just moves on to something

else you stopped

it fine sorry sorry Katie but I don't think I need to introduce that one to people no you don't you don't but that's in the PTL right um I believe so well which is that I wasn't paying too much attention Jesus shall reign where the sun it's one of those rare ones that you talk about that are both in the PTL and in the green it might let me pull up where that was from I don't think that one was I think that's just a hbook from the him book oh okay so those are I'll get to those in a minute because there are weird number of um just from the green book

okay oh here we are um see yeah that was the next slide um so yeah the PTL is pretty clearly a supplemental book you know it has th HS that the green book doesn't have but there are just a couple hymns from the green book for no apparent reason um some of them are just straight up the same ones like these ones here um some of them are the same but have slight word changes um to make them a little more modern or just word you know changing the meaning a bit so like great is your faithfulness instead of great is thy faithfulness or bless you and keep you um him is God is love his the care which is sing aloud loud loud and the PT Sing For Joy so you know je prer um they've also got a few hymns that are just um aled verses joy of the world is one verse shorter in the PTL and how great thou art has an additional verse um talking about the kingdom in

particular so I guess I understand the ones that have changes I'm still not entirely sure why they just have some hyn straight up from the green book no one knows

uh

Josh yep um it's actually the other way around it's the green book that has some books from the praise the Lord book because the came out in

1993 and the green book from what

I I think it got out

there that makes sense

actually they

got I think so

okay obviously the wife disagreed with him he's muted right now so

some she reached over she reached over and muted him

sorry uh no we know where you're coming from man we've been there okay so it was like 2003 when the green book came out 1993 when the PTL first came out so oh interesting it was the PTL that influenced the green book to include some of these more U contemporary hymns I guess or contemporary songs I guess I would say yeah makes sense it also speaks to the fact that you know book's not strange you know we're taking it from make the green uh the ptl's not strange taking H from it to make green book so you know it's just more because

HS

um one thing we should get to learn um with the PTL is understanding how the book is formatted and how it works the green book is organized by sort of topics you know like preaching the word Christ uh his absence that sort of things uh the PTL is sort of in alphabetical order so the original 130 are in alphabetical order and then the songs they added later are also separately in alphabetical order so this is why in the table of contents here on the right can you see my mouse cursor by the way yep okay that's why over here on the right you got in the start of the table content starts with himm one and himm 131 and 23 132 133 because there are two separate alphabetical orders um I guess they didn't want to mess up you know the original 130 does make it kind of confusing afterwards um the other thing you'll notice here in the table of contents are these songs in parenthesis so um H in the

PTL sometimes have two names the first few words of the hymn like how often hymns are known like a new commandment to give unto you then sort of The Unofficial names HS are sometimes known as so if you go so confession there see down at the bottom is himym number five if you actually go to himm number five in the the PTL the actual title is almighty God our heavenly father so number five over here is almighty God our heavenly father so it has both the official name and The Unofficial name The Unofficial names in

parenthesis uh the other thing you'll see in the table contents is the subject key so whereas the green book is organized by subject uh the PTL has a subject index uh the page before the um table of contents

so each letter corresponds to a certain subject like Psalms and praise is uh the key a so if you look over in the table of contents uh a lord God relates to uh s's praise and the key n which is uh encouragement

believe so if you're trying to look up h of a specific Topic in the PTL you can just go to um scale of contents and the subject index and look up by that topic there instead of going to a specific grouping in uh the hbook does that make

sense uh it helps that I have a book in front of me to be honest yeah that probably helps yeah it's a little confusing I have to be honest with you

but yeah I understand why they did the

um one you know they didn't want to change up the alphabetical ordering but having two alphabetical orderings side byid get it's a little confusing

yeah now help one

up so

um we've had the PTL for several years now I would say uh I guess I would first like to ask um of what people know of it do they like the PTL or are they sort of indifferent to it or anything they haven't liked from it uh and if anything what else do you want from it other than perhaps just more hymns

the other question would be do you have any concerns about the

PTL yep Ben link here um thanks for doing this subject um I think it's really great to um that we're looking at the PTL and it's great that the Ecclesia uses the book too um but it is really tough when people aren't as familiar with the hymns and I think um a lot of the ones in the green book are like the old favorites and like your favorite song on the radio that you know all the words to it's just more fun to sing along to some of those sometimes so in your opening remarks you said something about familiarity and that's really important to build that and and so having people like uh like for me Peter Davis exposed me to a lot of the green or the PTL hymns that I hadn't heard of um and sometimes it just takes having somebody introduce them to you um you know like our green book we don't sing every hymn in the green book um I think we we know which ones are our favorites and there there's definitely some bird gyms in the the PTL but not everyone's gonna be great uh I think of Peter Clawson too he's brought out a number during the the Eastern Bible School uh that I had never heard um there's one that I don't remember a couple years ago uh it had very Jewish sound to it and every time we sang it it got a little bit faster until like people were just fallen down it was like like the last verse was just so fast people couldn't keep up with it and it was um it was a lot of fun so there's there's definitely some variety there not all of those would be appropriate for a memorial service um but yeah I think we should put our heads together and come up with more than four four

yeah yeah the ptl's got a lot of those sort of uh hymns and arounds both in Jewish style and just generally that you know you sing once then sing faster and faster this G be a lot of fun um I think as Brian said though uh if these HS are coming from you know we talked about old favorites these are some of people's favorite hymns in the green book if these came from the PTL and there plenty of other good HS in the PTL as well that can become new favorites maybe just aren't as used to

um yeah I would say if you asked you know what are the favorite hymns in chrs Adelphia these would be among the absolute

favorites um and yeah Peter has done a great job let me go back into here a lot of these uh people know because of um Peter Davis and Peter glawson um a lot of them are great at um like campfires and stuff like that some of them would also be good for service some don't really fit uh

but lot these are very simple fast and these are probably the ones people would know besides the four um yeah some sometimes Josh I know I'm uh when I preside I'm definitely one of those give me the old favorites um the ones that we've been singing um I think it's a little different now because we have that Northern choir to kind of help us along when there is uh one of those new hymns I used to hate it when we would have a new hymn and we' just kind of you know all stumble through it it was brutal but now you get the northern choir who can kind of you know lead us through there um yeah we could we could definitely uh try some of the some of the newer ones for

sure that's the other thing with the PTL is that we don't necessarily have all the recordings like we do with the greenbook uh Phil can speak to this better than I could but I believe if you know just give him a little forewarning before the Sunday he can look into it see if we can get a certain him

to be done in P feel you have anything particular would uh need explain about

that what I would really like is for for some certain pianist to go through and uh record some of the more popular PTL hyms uh fing that I um put them in to the midi keyboard here and we just have the music without the

choir since I'm going to go off video now okay say I don't think he's talking to

me Ben you can run but you can't

hide so um just if you want to do any PTL hymns uh just give some Phill some for a warning let see if we can do that um we've done that oh Lord give me an undivided heart before did we not do that on memorial service was that at a bible school perhap we have um yeah we've done a couple at you know e and Chris Dophin before maybe we had just yeah missed that one we've done a few times that would raise it to five yeah because that one definitely looks I know that one um I think we might have done where is

it Be Still My Soul before which is another good

one um don't remember that one I pull that one Josh one thing about the um PTL is that there are mostly female voices so uh whenever I try to sing a I would kind of not be covered up there's no there's no male voices to cover me up in the in the uh WCF hm recordings I I don't know how many that they have um but the early ones um it was it was large female voices so that's one consider for memorial service yeah they've got a bit more diversity in it now um a bunch of the PTL hymns are like they're not in Parts it's in unison they they just have one singer and I think the main singers um who worked with WCF or women

so they're probably the most recordings but there are definitely um P HS with different parts you know four part harmonies and suchu like that and some more with more meable voices as

well see I me just pull Beast till my soul because you may recognize

it is

onent the cross of G

to your

God

to of our

heart in every

chain be faithful

Will Be Still My

Soul Your Best

your

through the whole thing I think we did that at bible school one year actually yeah maybe that's why it's because um that one's up on the um open stone.org and that's from our old friends the northern choir I believe um so I don't know how many P HS they have but maybe get a from

them hey Josh I was just thinking um I got a text from my brother-in-law this past Sunday uh he's a member in the Baltimore Ecclesia he sent a a photo of them doing a ecclesial hymn sing after memorial service they had a pretty good turnout it looked like there were maybe 20 people there you know huddled up around the piano um you know that might be an opportunity to you know do this once a quarter or something like that um get everybody together try to encourage as many people as possible to attend and you know have a little bit of music instruction right where we kind of get walked through our paces and get familiar with our notes and all those things so that you know you don't want to just play A Hymn for the first time on Sunday morning nobody's heard it before they don't know what their note is and you know maybe it's an octave too high to Jim's point right we could work through some of those Kinks um yeah more in an educational form format we've done that a few times with Peter before and I believe they worked out well um people know more HS people seem to enjoy them we just need you know we' need a good pianist to help lead it the only

thing um there definitely some an idea and you know I think there is I guess uh what's the term people would look for that I think oh yeah be interested needs organized

yeah well Josh if you wanted to organize something like that I'd be happy to play the piano yeah okay

good a good idea and I like your idea of doing doing like once a quarter that kind of stuff so it's it's not overwhelming but it's also marked down as something that people can say oh we're coming up on our next H sing

H yes the only problem I would have you maybe not I can organize it certainly but leading it would be I'm not you know trained to teach music theory and all that kind of stuff so I'm not sure if there's anybody particularly good at leading the discussion I can explain it as well as some people but be happy to help work out and all that kind of

stuff that's when you useful to have you know Peter the other

Peter uh Josh don't be so humble I know you're like a coral guy I was once a coral winged it can't explain stuff

uh but I guess the other question PTL books is since apparently we have the purple book uh would people be interested in adding other books or anything like that in future I guess my thought on the the idea would be you know uh let's learn to walk before we can run if we we've only got or hyns from the PTL I try to make things too complicated but we do have other him books so we can use other resources both online and uh physically so we don't need to limit ourselves you know we don't want

to so I guess uh it's the main point of topics there are other HS you can listen to if you'd like but um if anyone had any questions that would be a good

time I'd be I'd be curious to know if people had you asked a question earlier and nobody responded so maybe response is no uh but if we were going back a number of years I remember when the green book first came out there was all kinds of push back just because we had we weren't using the blackbook anymore and um you know I I I don't think what you're talking about or what anybody's suggesting is moving on from the green book to the PTL book but does does anybody have an issue with the PTL book because because I think there's some beautiful hymns in there um so I don't but I don't know if anybody body else does I I I tend to be like Butch you know when you're presiding on Sunday morning you want to pick what's familiar so that you're not going to catch everybody off guard but I think if you had you know the opportunities like the reason we even have four is because we heard it and learned it and and got to like it so there's more in there to do that I

think Jim how many how many christadelphians does it take to change a light

bulb I'm not sure change

so I think it's just a matter of that that we have to I mean we're all uncomfortable with change to some degree and and it just takes a little bit of time to to get used to trying some new

things I

agree

John yeah can make a quick comment uh thank you this is really helpful more to my wife to me because I am totally unmusical the U we use the the PTO book regularly in an arbor uh sometimes even in memorial service uh that would not be true at the other three ecclesias uh in this area they're probably still using the 1883 handbook so uh the complaint about the green book was that um it left out um a in the black book they had left out a lot of the attributes where they came from and we in the black book it was actually we were violating copyright and so when they put out the green book they actually put in some of these and some of the Brethren around the world mostly in Australia and someplace in Canada thought that we were now playing you know if it said Beethoven Melody right there they were going berserk about that but it was they it was because the green book was actually um politically um I mean not I say legally correct and that's same the PTL book has actually been used in England way before it got to the United States and the the drive for it was to make more singable hymns and uh that's that's it's really well I'm really glad you're doing this because as I said aside from an arbor around here we don't know anyone else it's using it regularly especially not a memorial service but this the hymns are generally easier to sing and I I like that you pointed those those out um what do what we do sometimes when there's a new hymn even if it's in memorial service will'll play it through once and then a second time and we are fortunate here because we have some really good train musicians you probably know Julie Anderson who is a actually has composed the himm in some of the books and Val Eiffel also a trained singer so we we have good leadership I'm I'm not familiar it's been the since the Aime convention I don't go to it anymore since I retired in 2004 so I haven't been in Boston live for about 20 years so I don't know how many trained singers you have besides

Jim

I didn't mean to make a funny I I I um we just we just have the

one well this is really great Mary is really appreci thank you put that two cents in there we do use the PTO quite regularly even memorial service maybe you know even sometimes two hymns depends on what the uh what the presiding and the speaking Brethren want or the or the all the instrumental in our Ecclesia the instrumentalist picks the hymns will ask the S the exhorting brother if he has a particular hymn he wants or at least get words so you can have the music The Words the hym go with the exhortation but uh I found when we introduced the PTL it was great to do it as a postlude they start to hear the the music and eventually you introduce it during the service and uh from there they they know it they don't actually know it we we're lousy singers except for the two John mentioned but we make a Joyful Noise unto the Lord my recollection going back to when he years and and Sten is that singing there was actually quite good you had a good siid audience and there must have been some people there were good at leading because it was one of the better sounding eclesia but I don't know maybe that's true or not may be better now than 20 years ago but my son who's in South Africa can really tell you about exuberant

singing yeah yeah yeah sure um we have a uh Jason I don't know if you've seen it I'm trying to find it once a month we have all the birthdays for that month come up on the stage and we sing and it's out of the

PTL and I'll be dawned now I thought I saw it a minute ago and I can't remember which it is I'm sorry but it's in there is it is it happy birthday number 327 no no it's not happy birthday it's

uh

now I can't remember what number him it is but it's very

appropriate we we and traveling around the world we have actually like in Australia run into some eclesia that still use the 64 black black book which is kind of

interesting I think the last time we were down at katat they still used the 6 4 book I think really yeah the 64 book I I guess if I really told them about the 64 book was a result of the reunion and picked up hymns from the suffix Street book and so that was that's why they bring brought it out in ' 64 but there was no attempt to fix copyrights or melodies or anything else it was just a combining of the two communities to make everybody body feel together some of the hymns were in both books were not a problem but they picked up some extra hymns and they never gave at that time they never gave any thought to sing ability or anything else until they came to the Greenville but this is really interesting um I'm really glad you're talking about the PTL because uh we got we we have gotten blowback sometimes from visitors why are we using this strange hym book um it was put out actually by a fairly large group of ecclesias in northern England and led by some people who really would train musicians so it's quite really quite a good

book and Ne next time somebody complains I will say well Boston uses this book too

you we don't use it enough we're looking to use it

more that'll get me off the hook there's two eclesia in North America oh yeah yeah I I often use PTL for

interludes you

know

yeah Josh just a couple of comments um one way that we uh one opportunity we have to introduce hymns uh that's already in the services during our collection maybe not all those belong there um but it's a time when people reflect and you can still uh you can still introduce something I don't know if I haven't thought much about it but that occurs to me that that it's a time that we could introduce them um and to answer General go ahead on Mary I was just gonna say we would do the instrumentalists would uh use it for the collection or a

postloop yeah um and to answer your that was appropriate with did you get it yes yeah okay and then Josh to answer your question about using PTL I mean it's in our pews and uh and I mean the the words are sound um

and as long as it's uplifting it'd be great to have it my only caution would be the same with any other unknown himym is just not um not being able to make a Jo a joyful sound you know I'm a terrible s and I don't care how many people tell me God doesn't care what my voice sounds like I do um and I don't want to I don't want to upset the rest of the eclesia because I can't I know Katie will

sometimes um remark on people who have sung Out Of Tune because she can tell I can't tell right

um that's okay but the point is um if the volume is loud enough on an accompanying piece I can turn up my volume without being embarrassed so as as long as that's a crutch that I could use I'd love to have it I mean it's it's

fantastic know there's nothing better than I think Brian's Lloyd has probably talked about all of us maybe have talked about it just if the hymns or the the Psalms that's the reason why we had Psalms is to be able to memorize God's word and uh you know I sing I sing music uh in my head sometimes when I hear scripture and the more opportunities we have to do that the better so yeah so

thanks you make a great point I don't mean to jump in Jos but you make a great Point Jim that music helps you memorize verses there just just no doubt about

it yeah and I think using the uh instrumental t introduce people to um the first introduce them to the melody and then we can introduce the words after is a good idea um brother Brian I believe you've been virtually raising your hand for a minute

you sure yeah thanks um yeah I appreciate the topic Josh good good topic and and I understand uh you know John mentioned that some people are

like what are they doing using those strange hymns um I would you know know with with if somebody expresses that kind of uh concern or that kind of thing I think I would

encourage uh the fact that the the Bible from four places in three times in the Psalms and once in Isaiah 42 uh says sing to the Lord a new song um that that's a a scriptural

um a scriptural command and uh the fact that you're you know you're kind of getting us to think about the fact that you know we have this resource sitting in our pews as as Jim said and we maybe are underutilizing it to some degree um the fact that you're kind of bringing some of this to our attention is is good because it there's there's a reason why in in the Psalms it says to sing to the Lord a new song Because as we get you know I understand Jim that uh Jim uh boyo that we we get or it can take the Comfort can take a little bit of time um change does I guess my English teacher in 10th Grade or 11th grade said change terrifies and that quote is kind of stuck with me it does it does terrify sometimes we're get a little uneasy about it but but

it's we can bring out uh praise to our Heavenly Father and in new ways and reach into our hearts in new ways that that uh just singing the same

songs again and again and again doesn't uh successfully do and your original question Josh about like what do people think about um you know using the pil uh songs I'll share that in the Ecclesia that that we were in before coming to stoen that U there was an uh at some point PTL books were bought and and we started incorporating them into the the service more and it really struck a chord with uh the young people my kids generation and their cousins and they just really really um it connected with their uh hearts in a way that the the older hymns you know did not so there's some of us you know

Butch you're you're welcome to to love those old hymns like um and so why I mean there's a lot of great old hymns but we also have to recognize that other people have preferences that are different than ours and and uh and for the for for a lot of the young people I think there's something to be said for you know singing a new song um yeah Chris also mentioned we have a we I do have a CD that it does have somebody was asking about having the was it Phil um having some of

those the PTL hearing the the the the the piano or organ accompanyment or whatever to that I can I'll take a look at it I think it's Peter Clawson who did it um and I could share that with people if they're

interested that sounds good um going to uh like Co weekends and you know just general um stuff for the younger people uh people do still enjoy you know a lot of the um green book HS but yeah people engage a lot with a lot of the um PTL hymns um sing a lot of him sings like that people always enjoy doing that so it does bring a lot um to have the P around to sing at groups with younger people because you like that book and the worship books as well are pretty

popular

Josh hello can you hear me okay yeah oh brother Brian just mentioned about uh the scripture saying sing a new song

uh I thought about this a long time go not to your class and that is after uh the Lord brought Israel out of Egypt and it says they sang they sang a song and uh

and and then I read in Revelation where brother Brian just mentioned where he say sing a new song well I said to myself well if that's a new song what was the old song that took me to Moses

and they praised the Lord and thank him for being delivered from the Egyptians but that was only a temporary salvation but when you go to Revelations and they say sing a new song That's the Song of the Saints where there is not going to be any more death uh uh so I'm just wondering uh what do you think about

that in other words a new song

is it speaks of everlasting life in the Kingdom which is everlasting life eternal life but the ones that Moses them saying that was only a temporary uh LIF saving uh

song yeah we certainly use um Psalms to help develop our faith and to learn to understand things better that's how people connect emotionally um to the word of God is through songs often music is power you know Wonder also during the time of Daniel when they was told to sing uhh when the image came they they was supposed to sing all it says all type of music it said and that reminds me of the uh of the world and uh so uh but anyway U now just it's some of the songs that the

PTL uh to me this is my Pro opinion some of the H didn't have sound like some of the H that come from the

world y they can't be in um some of the more stylistic like the world but as far as I've ever seen there's nothing in the PTL in terms of words or anything like that that's out of line or against what christadelphians would say Josh is it not the case

that PTL actually has

more uh material of Christadelphian origin than the the green Hy

book um I know there's plenty of stuff in the PTL that's from christadelphians I don't know the exact ratio I know there's some in both that is made by christadelphians um I believe and some that's not I believe the worship books are uh are entirely written by christadelphians both the PTL and the green book or mixes and it's not you know completely clean either way sometimes you have a Melody that's written um you know by a composer 300 years ago or recently then words are written by a Christadelphian or you might just have you know a common hymn that everyone knows like abide with me I don't believe is written by Christadelphian um other hymns you have you know wellknown Melody that's just written with more Christan lyrics or lyrics slightly changed to not include you know trinitarian thought or anything like that and that's in both the green book and the

PTL all right well it's 8:30 does anybody have Josh do you have anything more to add

or I don't think in particular okay does anybody have anything else before we um close with prayer and you know obviously the conversation can continue

afterwards yeah just a comment that our vocabulary has changed uh and some of the words in the older hym books and older hymns those old lyrics some of them I don't actually understand what I'm singing and shame on me for not figuring it out but um at at the same time uh it's really important to understand what we're singing about so um that's just one more benefit I think of using a more modern uh modern hymns um but again I think you can have my my personal opinion is you can have a combination of both you know we don't have to limit ourselves and say oh well we'll have to sing from the PTL or we'll sing from the the green book or you

know they're all they're all seeking to do the same thing from what I can tell yeah some of the green book hymns can be a little obtuse but you know with some of these PTL hymns that change the word slightly from like th your just feels a little weird to me maybe to someone who's you know grew up with that it would feel weird to you know use thy instead so yeah some extent it's what you're used to and some extent um you know they're just as viable either

way it's like those Heathen that go from the NIV I see where you're coming from Josh I can see where you're coming from