Praise the Lord

Transcript

jumping in and out of this slideshow all x right uh so as Dad said this is a x followup to the last Wednesday night x class I did which was um talked about x him generally and particularly focused x on the green book and so I thought it x would be important to have a follow-up x discussion about the PT because we've x had it for a few years now I'm not x exactly sure how long nobody seems to x have to remember specifically when we x got it if anyone has that exact year x nice to know um we've had it for a few x years um and we've only really used a x couple songs from it in Boston so far as x I'm I can count it uh we use four PTL x hymns in Boston um there are other you x know hymns you'll hear around like at um x ecbs or weekends or anything like that x as far as unless I'm forgetting anything x I think it's just these four that see um x semi-regular rotation in Boston x um obviously we don't have to use any x more PTL hymns or anything um but when I x was talking to people about their x favorite hymns uh people brought up the x PTL a lot x um people really like these four or x other hyms in the book x so I you know I don't think we're not x avoiding using the rest of the PTL x because we don't like it just because x people aren't used to it and don't x really haven't built up any familiarity x with it and it has a lot of good hymns x to offer that we can add to our worship x you know strengthen our x eclesia so think it's important that we x uh have a discussion about it look x through it see what the strengths and x weaknesses are of it as a hm book and uh x if we're going to have a PTL in every x Pew we might as well get to know what's x actually in the x book so first of all um where does it x come from what is it this is the hottest x conf conference in the UK it's a x Christadelphian weekend that also acts x as a charity uh they're the ones that x originally produced the PTL and as x quoting from their website music has x always been a key thread running through x the hoton weekend over the years we have x produced a number of music books for use x in churches initially catering for x singing in youth groups music resources x have grown gradually into the praise the x Lord project there are now two PTL song x books both featuring more contemporary x praise songs is complement the Timeless x hymns the chrisel himm x book so the PTL is meant as a x complimentary book to the green book not x as a replacement or anything like that x but an addition uh they mentioned x talking about there being two PTL uh x song books uh which gets a little x confusing um as I understand it there's x an original version of the PTL with 130 x hymns released in 19 x 1993 they then released a revised x Edition in 2000 with 170 more songs for x a total of 300 uh that's the book that x we have or at least we have a reprint of x it there's also a second supplemental x book called DL 2016 just 37 additional x HS I'm a little hazy on the details with x this and the website's not entirely x clear so feel free to jump in if I got x something wrong here or I didn't mention x something x something x uh PTL gives us a wider variety of hymns x different styles and in addition to HS x we already have uh New England we're x only really familiar with the green book x uh but around the globe other books are x quite x common as mentioned the PTL 2016 x alongside the PTL are welln the other x two most wellknown are probably the two x worship books uh worship one and worship x two known as the purple book and um the x orange book x respectively um which are made those two x are made up of entirely new songs by x christadelphians x um people who made those two books are x releasing a third book next year just in x case you want to know which will be blue x as I heard yesterday apparently we have x the purple book in like a cabinet x somewhere in the x Ecclesia x so I guess we do that later we do we x have several of the purple books in in a x draw I'm I'm not sure how many I don't x know if Phil knows how many but there's x a bunch of x men there's around a x dozen x okay we as far as I know we've never x used it or I don't know if anybody's x ever played a himm out of it that not x that I know x of so talking about the PTL H x specifically today as the only on I know x um just so people know um in terms of x recordings of the PTL hymns there a few x on hopen stone.org that Phil has put up x there and there are um mostly where the x resource that I found that is the most x uh PTL hymns uh the whest database of x them is the WCF foundation.org I don't x know if anywhere else that has extensive x recordings uh but if you know love to x hear about it uh some people have x preferences about what kind of HS we x should play during service which is fine x but first and foremost we should know x what's actually in the book or make you x know x so what kind of HS are in the PTL first x of all there are plenty of HS that would x just fit right into the green book um x inste all new style hymns a lot of them x are in you know standard British Carol x style or various other hymns that would x um you wouldn't even notice if somebody x just brought it out of the green book it x wouldn't seem out of x place x well we'll move on for now all these are x links but we don't need to go to those x at the moment um PT also includes some x classic hymns that we don't have in the x green book which is Amazing Grace we in x my lamp which is better known as sing x Hosanna but a friend we have in JS this x better or worse um it's also got some x Christmas x hymns don't x have the pil has of various Styles x including a lot of Jewish style hymns um x Buble written brag time and couple that x are more Jazzy and plenty of x other x Styles um most of the hymns are in more x sort of a modern style uh maybe it has a x chorus just the lyrics are a lot you x know more modern as it x were there just a few x examples x through this x here there are plenty of songs that x would fit more that are used a lot at x weekends such like that because they're x short easy to learn um simple and x they're x good uh if there's one big Achilles heel x of the P using the PTL as a um hm book x is that a lot of the hymns are very x short um so short you can run through x them even twice and it take a minute not x all of them certainly it can make you x know trying to search out individual x song a x tricky so I guess like to ask is there x anyone who's tried using PTL him books x and just him and just um had trouble x finding one that actually worked for the x him book or just not uh Tred out x yet x I haven't Josh but um that's why I want x I want to learn a little bit more about x it so it's this class is great to kind x of familiarize myself with some of the x hymns and I I would like to use it more x going x forward let's go on I agree with Jason x i' I've picked out a few as postludes uh x from time to time in fact uh some people x say I play the PTL postludes too often x um but it play them because they're x different because the you know some of x the Melodies are uh are quite good but x there's no doubt about the fact that one x of the challenges when you look at a him x and think about playing it on a Sunday x morning you know some of them are just x really short um you could always you x know say well we'll go we'll run through x it twice but that's definitely a x challenge when you go uh digging into x some of the PTO x songs and some of the PTO hymns uh work x fine if use Trace but some just don't x fit um you know you'll play it once it's x not the kind of him that can really be x repeated work a lot of them as say here x very good very short I'll play one or x two here play this x one can you hear the audio for x this a little x bit turn up I don't think turning up the x sound of Peter is going to x help that's better yeah we can hear x that let me x be yours and yours x alone may my will fall x ever x be ever more your x own never let my heart grow x C x never let me x go and the x father let be be x yours and x yours x so getting cover by the box here it's a x rather pretty hymn but as you can tell x it only took about a x minute and um that's not on I'll be x using these a lot more Josh now that I x know they're so x short I'm down with the short x ones I think that was Butchie singing x actually nice job but yeah it's not all x that unlike some of the old anthems we x still have in the green book that are x very brief hymns yeah you can use x them you know you just probably don't x want to use multiple in the same service x certainly just you know people like the x HS they would like them to last more x than 30 seconds each um yes maybe need x to balance those out yeah I think some x people have a thought that um the PTL is x substantially different from the green x book in terms of what hymns are allowed x in but the green book has a lot of hymns x that really aren't easy to fit into a x service either it's got a lot of marches x which are pretty tricky to F to a x service plenty hymns that just aren't x meant for it that are meant for weddings x or other events so having a hbook that's x full of different stuff is not unusual x for using the x service possibly you could um there are x plenty of inclusions that have four HS x during a service so maybe um when you're x going to use a BTL use two I don't x remember when exactly they put the x fourth hymn separ out I think x um what is it does um what's what x eclesia um New England uses for HS is x that um x con x I'm not absolutely sure but I certainly x seen ecclesius use four hymns I've seen x ecclesius use more than four uh hymns x um but sometimes right after memorial x service they'll sing A Hymn and then x you'll have some closing statements and x uh then another hymn x um if if you were you know saying oh x well let's let's uh add some PTL hymns x in um I think Steve has actually done x this before where he said we're GNA sing x an extra hymn today uh to learn a new x hymn I don't think I don't have a x problem with it I don't know if anybody x else does but um I think Steve has done x that a couple times before and it's um x it doesn't doesn't hurt anything by any x means and like you say a lot of them are x fairly short so adding an extra hymn x that's one minute long is not exactly x dragging out your x service one x idea um Josh one idea would be uh x uh after the announcements and before x the opening prayer like you could x squeeze another hem in there a short one x bit nicely I think x sure plenty of good ones short ones in x here just picking out another here um x this is a person one I like it might be x tricky to fit in but it's sort of like x um what's it called was it for you that x flash is w and sore and that it's a much x more uh Eerie and somber hymn x stay x me remain here with x me x PR x and stay with x me x remain with x me x and and x pray x with x me x with x and x PR stay with x me remain here with x me x and x PR it's obviously not exactly your sort x of standard hymn it's a very different x um kind name you can add to your x repertoire even as you see there though x uh they repeated several times and it x only lasted a minute or two I had to x learn no but it's a very cool sound and x it may fit your exhortation not going to x fit every exitation x certainly to work for x that x so check x here yeah but not every hymn In the hym x book is anything you know particularly x fast plenty of them are of a perfectly x normal length um to use in our service x that you know would either fit Ron or x our new style and are long enough have x enough to say you know um some these pel x hymns may have a nice message but very x short lyrics Simple lyrics some of them x are uh more poetic I feel sell x hymns um I'll play this one this one a x bit longer x though it's back x here x to the x quiet in the of x the x stand in x a is my x strength to come that is to x share x and in the father x will x and by x father x to x theet x the x I my x heart to x the x Jesus I don't know why that's x like just moves on to something x else you stopped x it fine sorry sorry Katie but I don't x think I need to introduce that one to x people no you don't you don't but that's x in the PTL right um I believe so well x which is that I wasn't paying too much x attention Jesus shall reign where the x sun it's one of those rare ones that you x talk about that are both in the PTL and x in the x green it might let me pull up where that x was from I don't think that one was I x think that's just a hbook from the him x book oh okay so those are I'll get to x those in a minute because there are x weird number of um just from the green x book x okay oh here we are um see yeah that was x the next slide um so yeah the PTL is x pretty clearly a supplemental book you x know it has th HS that the green book x doesn't have but there are just a couple x hymns from the green book for no x apparent reason um some of them are just x straight up the same ones like these x ones x here um some of them are the same but x have slight word changes um to make them x a little more modern or just word you x know changing the meaning a bit so like x great is your faithfulness instead of x great is thy faithfulness or bless you x and keep you um him is God is love his x the care which is sing aloud loud loud x and the PT Sing For Joy so you x know je prer um they've also got a few x hymns that are just um aled verses joy x of the world is one verse shorter in the x PTL and how great thou art has an x additional verse um talking about the x kingdom in x particular so I guess I understand the x ones that have changes I'm still not x entirely sure x why they just have some hyn straight up x from the green book no one x knows x uh x Josh yep um it's actually the other way x around it's the green book that has some x books from the praise the Lord book x because the came out in x 1993 and the green book from what x I I think it got out x there that makes sense x actually they x got I think so x okay obviously the wife disagreed with x him he's muted right now so x some she reached over she reached over x and muted x him x sorry uh no we know where you're coming x from man we've been there okay so it was x like 2003 when the green book came out x 1993 when the PTL first came out so oh x interesting it was the PTL that x influenced the green book to include x some of these more U contemporary hymns x I guess or contemporary songs I guess I x would say yeah makes sense it also x speaks to the fact that you know book's x not strange you know we're taking it x from make the green uh the ptl's not x strange taking H from it to make green x book so you x know it's just more because x HS x um one thing we should get to learn um x with the PTL is understanding how the x book is formatted and how it works the x green book is organized by sort of x topics you know like preaching the word x Christ uh his absence that sort of x things uh the PTL is sort of in x alphabetical order so the original 130 x are in alphabetical order and then the x songs they added later are also x separately in alphabetical order so this x is why in the table of contents here on x the right can you see my mouse cursor by x the way yep okay that's why over here on x the right you got in the start of the x table content starts with himm one and x himm 131 and 23 132 x 133 because there are two separate x alphabetical x orders um I guess they didn't want to x mess up you know the original 130 does x make it kind of confusing x afterwards um the other thing you'll x notice here in the table of contents are x these songs in x parenthesis so um H in the x PTL sometimes have two names the first x few words of the hymn like how often x hymns are known like a new commandment x to give unto you then sort of The x Unofficial names HS are sometimes known x as so if you go so confession there see x down at the bottom is himym number five x if you actually go to himm number five x in the the PTL the actual title is x almighty God our heavenly father so x number five over here is almighty God x our heavenly father so it has both the x official name and The Unofficial name x The Unofficial names in x parenthesis uh the other thing you'll x see in the table contents is the subject x key so whereas the green book is x organized by subject uh the PTL has a x subject index uh the page x before the um table of contents x so each letter corresponds to a certain x subject like Psalms and praise is uh the x key a so if you look over in the table x of contents uh a lord God relates to uh x s's praise and the key n which is uh x encouragement x believe so if you're trying to look up h x of a specific Topic in the PTL you can x just go to um scale of contents and the x subject index and look up by that topic x there instead of going to a specific x grouping in uh the hbook does that make x sense uh it helps that I have a book in x front of me to be honest yeah that x probably helps yeah it's a little x confusing I have to be honest with you x but yeah I understand why they did the x um one you know they didn't want to x change up the alphabetical ordering but x having two alphabetical orderings side x byid get it's a little confusing x yeah now help one x up so x um we've had the PTL for several years x now I would say uh I guess I would first x like to ask um of what people know of it x do they like the PTL or are they sort of x indifferent to it or anything they x haven't liked from it uh and if anything x what else do you want from it other than x perhaps just more hymns x the other question would be do you have x any concerns about the x PTL yep Ben link here um thanks for x doing this subject um I think it's x really great to um that we're looking at x the PTL and it's great that the Ecclesia x uses the book too um but it is really x tough when people aren't as familiar x with the hymns and I think um a lot of x the ones in the green book are like the x old favorites and like your favorite x song on the radio that you know all the x words to it's just more fun to sing x along to some of those sometimes so in x your opening remarks you said something x about familiarity and that's really x important to build that and and so x having people like uh like for me Peter x Davis exposed me to a lot of the green x or the PTL hymns that I hadn't heard of x um and sometimes it just takes having x somebody introduce them to you um you x know like our green book we don't sing x every hymn in the green book um I think x we we know which ones are our favorites x and there there's definitely some bird x gyms in the the PTL but not everyone's x gonna be great uh I think of Peter x Clawson too he's brought out a number x during the the Eastern Bible School uh x that I had never heard um there's one x that I don't remember a couple years ago x uh it had very Jewish sound to it and x every time we sang it it got a little x bit faster until like people were just x fallen down it was like like the last x verse was just so fast people couldn't x keep up with it and it was um it was a x lot of fun so there's there's definitely x some variety there not all of those x would be appropriate for a memorial x service um but yeah I think we should x put our heads together and come up with x more than four four x yeah yeah the ptl's got a lot of those x sort of uh hymns and arounds both in x Jewish style and just generally that you x know you sing once then sing faster and x faster this G be a lot of fun um I think x as Brian said though uh if these HS are x coming from you know we talked about old x favorites these are some of people's x favorite hymns in the green book if x these came from the PTL and there plenty x of other good HS in the PTL as well that x can become new favorites maybe just x aren't as used to x um yeah I would say if you asked you x know what are the favorite hymns in chrs x Adelphia these would be among the x absolute x favorites um and yeah Peter has done a x great job let me go back into here a lot x of these uh people know because of um x Peter Davis and Peter x glawson um a lot of them are great at um x like campfires and stuff like that some x of them would also be good for service x some don't really fit uh x but lot these are very simple fast and x these are probably the ones people would x know besides the x four um yeah some sometimes Josh I know x I'm uh when I preside I'm definitely one x of those give me the old x favorites um the ones that we've been x singing um I think it's a little x different now because we have that x Northern choir to kind of help us along x when there is uh one of those new hymns x I used to hate it when we would have a x new hymn and we' just kind of you know x all stumble through it it was brutal but x now you get the northern choir who can x kind of you know lead us through there x um yeah we could we could definitely uh x try some of the some of the newer ones x for x sure that's the other thing with the PTL x is that we don't necessarily have all x the recordings like we do with the x greenbook uh Phil can speak to this x better than I could but I believe if you x know just give him a little forewarning x before the Sunday he can look into it x see if we can get a certain him x to be done in P feel you have anything x particular would uh need explain about x that what I would really like is for for x some certain pianist to go through and x uh record some of the more popular PTL x hyms uh fing that I um put them in to x the midi keyboard x here and we just have the music without x the x choir since I'm going to go off video x now okay say I don't think he's talking x to x me Ben you can run but you can't x hide so um just if you want to do any x PTL hymns uh just give some Phill some x for a warning let see if we can do that x um we've done that oh Lord give me an x undivided heart before did we not do x that on memorial service was that at a x bible school perhap we have um yeah x we've done a couple at you know e and x Chris Dophin before maybe we had just x yeah missed that one we've done a few x times that would raise it to x five yeah because that one definitely x looks I know that one um I think we x might have x done where is x it Be Still My Soul before which is x another good x one um don't remember that one I pull x that one Josh one thing about the um PTL x is that there are mostly female voices x so uh whenever I try to sing a I would x kind of not be covered x up there's no there's no male voices to x cover me up in the in the uh WCF hm x recordings I I don't know how many that x they have um but the early ones um it x was it was large x female voices so that's one consider for x memorial x service yeah they've got a bit more x diversity in it now um a bunch of the x PTL hymns are like they're not in Parts x it's in unison they they just have one x singer and I think the main singers um x who worked with WCF or women x so they're probably the most recordings x but there are definitely um P HS with x different parts you know four part x harmonies and suchu like that and some x more with more meable voices as x well see I me just pull Beast till my x soul because you may recognize x it is x onent the cross of G x to your x God x to of our x heart in every x chain be faithful x Will Be Still My x Soul Your Best x your x through the whole x thing I think we did that at bible x school one year actually yeah maybe x that's why it's because um that one's up x on the um open stone.org and that's from x our old friends the northern choir I x believe um so I don't know how many P HS x they have but maybe get a from x them hey Josh I was just thinking um I x got a text from my brother-in-law this x past Sunday uh he's a member in the x Baltimore x Ecclesia he sent a a photo of them doing x a ecclesial hymn sing after memorial x service they had a pretty good turnout x it looked like there were maybe 20 x people there you know huddled up around x the piano um you know that might be an x opportunity to you know do this once a x quarter or something like that um get x everybody together try to encourage as x many people as possible to attend and x you know have a little bit of music x instruction right where we kind of get x walked through our paces and get x familiar with our notes and all those x things so that you know you don't want x to just play A Hymn for the first time x on Sunday morning nobody's heard it x before they don't know what their note x is and you know maybe it's an octave too x high to Jim's point right we could work x through some of those Kinks um yeah more x in an educational form format we've done x that a few times with Peter before and I x believe they worked out well um people x know more HS people seem to enjoy them x we just need you know we' need a good x pianist to help lead it the only x thing um there definitely some an idea x and you know I think there x is I guess uh what's the term people x would look for that I think oh yeah be x interested needs organized x yeah well Josh if you wanted to organize x something like that I'd be happy to play x the piano yeah okay x good a good idea and I like your idea of x doing doing like once a quarter that x kind of stuff so it's it's not x overwhelming but it's also marked down x as something that people can say oh x we're coming up on our next H sing x H yes the only problem I would have x you maybe not I can organize it x certainly but leading it would be I'm x not you know trained to teach music x theory and all that kind of stuff so I'm x not sure if there's anybody particularly x good at leading the discussion I can x explain it as well as some people but be x happy to help work out and all that kind x of x stuff that's when you useful to have you x know Peter the other x Peter uh Josh don't be so humble I know x you're like a coral guy I was once a x coral x winged x it can't explain stuff x uh but I guess the other question PTL x books is since apparently we have the x purple book uh would people be x interested in adding other books or x anything like that in x future I guess my thought on the the x idea would be you know uh let's learn to x walk before we can run if we we've only x got or hyns from the PTL I try to make x things too complicated but we do have x other him books so we can use other x resources both online and uh physically x so we don't need to limit ourselves you x know we don't want x to so I guess uh it's the main point of x topics there are other HS you can listen x to if you'd like but um if anyone had x any questions that would be a good x time I'd be I'd be curious to know if x people had you asked a question earlier x and nobody responded so maybe response x is no uh but if we were going back a x number of years I remember when the x green book first came out there was all x kinds of push back just because we had x we weren't using the blackbook anymore x and um you know I I I don't think what x you're talking about or what anybody's x suggesting is moving on from the green x book to the PTL book but does does x anybody have an issue with the PTL book x because because I think there's some x beautiful hymns in there um so I don't x but I don't know if anybody body else x does I I I tend to be like Butch you x know when you're presiding on Sunday x morning you want to pick what's familiar x so that you're not going to catch x everybody off guard but I think if you x had you know the opportunities like the x reason we even have four is because we x heard it and learned it and and got to x like it so there's more in there to do x that I x think Jim how many how many x christadelphians does it take to change x a light x bulb I'm not sure change x so I think it's just a matter of that x that we have to I mean we're all x uncomfortable with change to some degree x and and it just takes a little bit of x time to to get used to trying some new x things I x agree x John yeah can make a quick comment uh x thank you this is really helpful more to x my wife to me because I am totally x unmusical x the U we use the the PTO book regularly x in an arbor uh sometimes even in x memorial service uh that would not be x true at the other three x ecclesias uh in this area they're x probably still using the 1883 x handbook so uh the complaint about the x green book was that um it left out um a x in the black book they had left out a x lot of the attributes where they came x from and we in the black book it was x actually we were violating copyright and x so when they put out the green book they x actually put in some of these and some x of the Brethren around the world mostly x in Australia and someplace in Canada x thought that we were now playing you x know if it said Beethoven Melody right x there they were going berserk about that x but it was they it was because the green x book was actually um politically um I x mean not I say legally correct and x that's same the PTL book has actually x been used in England way before it got x to the United States and the the drive x for it was to make more singable hymns x and uh that's that's it's really well x I'm really glad you're doing this x because as I said aside from an arbor x around here we don't know anyone else x it's using it regularly especially not a x memorial service but this the hymns are x generally easier to sing and I I like x that you pointed those those out um what x do what we do sometimes when there's a x new hymn even if it's in memorial x service will'll play it through once and x then a second time and we are fortunate x here because we have some really good x train musicians you probably know Julie x Anderson who is a actually has composed x the himm in some of the books and Val x Eiffel also a trained singer so we we x have good leadership I'm I'm not x familiar it's been the since the Aime x convention I don't go to it anymore x since I retired in 2004 so I haven't x been in Boston live for about 20 years x so I don't know how many trained singers x you have besides x Jim x I didn't mean to make a funny I I I um x we just we just have the x one well this is really great Mary is x really appreci thank you put that two x cents in there we do use the PTO quite x regularly even memorial service maybe x you know even sometimes two hymns x depends on what the uh what the x presiding and the speaking Brethren want x or the or the all the instrumental x in our Ecclesia the instrumentalist x picks the hymns will ask the S the x exhorting brother if he has a particular x hymn he wants or at least get words so x you can have the music The Words the hym x go with the x exhortation but uh I found when we x introduced the x PTL it was great to do it as a x postlude they start to hear the the x music and eventually you introduce it x during the x service and uh from there they they know x it they don't actually know it we we're x lousy singers except for the two John x mentioned but we make a Joyful Noise x unto the x Lord my recollection going back to when x he years and and Sten is that singing x there was actually quite good you had a x good siid audience and there must have x been some people there were good at x leading because it was one of the better x sounding eclesia but I don't know maybe x that's true or not may be better now x than 20 years ago but my son who's in x South Africa can really tell you about x exuberant x singing yeah yeah yeah sure um we have a x uh Jason I don't know if you've seen it x I'm trying to find it once a month we x have all the birthdays for that month x come up on the stage and we sing and x it's out of the x PTL and I'll be dawned now I thought I x saw it a minute x ago and I can't remember which it is I'm x sorry but it's in x there is it is it happy birthday number x 327 no no it's not happy birthday it's x uh x now I can't remember what number him it x is but it's very x appropriate we we and traveling around x the world we have actually like in x Australia run into some eclesia that x still use the 64 black black x book which is kind of x interesting I think the last time we x were down at katat they still used the 6 x 4 book I x think really yeah the 64 book I I guess x if I really told them about the 64 book x was a result of the reunion and picked x up hymns from the suffix Street book and x so that was that's why they bring x brought it out in ' 64 but there was no x attempt to fix copyrights or melodies or x anything else it was just a combining of x the two communities to make everybody x body feel together some of the hymns x were in both books were not a problem x but they picked up some extra hymns and x they never gave at that time they never x gave any thought to sing ability or x anything else until they came to the x Greenville but this is really x interesting um I'm really glad you're x talking about the PTL because uh we got x we we have gotten blowback sometimes x from visitors why are we using this x strange hym book um it was put out x actually by a fairly large group of x ecclesias in northern England and led by x some people who really would train x musicians so it's quite really quite a x good x book and Ne next time somebody complains x I will say well Boston uses this book x too x you we don't use it enough we're looking x to use it x more that'll get me off the hook there's x two eclesia in North America oh yeah x yeah I I often use PTL for x interludes you x know x yeah Josh just a couple of comments um x one way that we uh one opportunity we x have to introduce hymns uh that's x already in the services during our x collection maybe not all those belong x there um but it's a time when people x reflect and you can still uh you can x still introduce something I don't know x if I haven't thought much about it but x that occurs to me that that it's a time x that we could introduce them um and to x answer x General go ahead on x Mary I was just gonna say we would do x the instrumentalists would uh use it for x the collection or a x postloop yeah um and to answer your that x was appropriate x with did you get it yes yeah okay and x then Josh to answer your question about x using PTL I mean it's in our pews and uh x and I mean the the words are sound um x and as long as it's uplifting it'd be x great to have it my only caution would x be the same with any other unknown himym x is just not um not being able to make a x Jo a joyful sound you know I'm a x terrible s and I don't care how many x people tell me God doesn't care what my x voice sounds like I do um and I don't x want x to I don't want to upset the rest of the x eclesia because I can't I know Katie x will x sometimes um remark on people who have x sung Out Of Tune because she can tell I x can't tell right x um that's okay but the point is um if x the volume is loud enough on an x accompanying piece I can turn up my x volume without being embarrassed so as x as long as that's a crutch that I could x use I'd love to have it I mean it's it's x fantastic know there's nothing better x than I think Brian's Lloyd has probably x talked about all of us maybe have talked x about it just if the hymns or the the x Psalms that's the reason why we had x Psalms is to be able to memorize God's x word and uh you know I sing I sing music x uh in my head sometimes when I hear x scripture and the more opportunities we x have to do that the better so yeah so x thanks you make a great point I don't x mean to jump in Jos but you make a great x Point Jim that music helps you memorize x verses there just just no doubt about x it yeah and I think using the uh x instrumental t introduce people to um x the first introduce them to the melody x and then we can introduce the words x after is a good idea um brother Brian I x believe you've been virtually raising x your hand for a minute x you sure yeah thanks um yeah I x appreciate the topic Josh good good x topic and and I understand uh you know x John mentioned that some people are x like what are they doing using those x strange hymns um I would you know know x with with if somebody expresses that x kind of uh concern or that kind of thing x I think I would x encourage uh the fact that the the Bible x from four places in three times in the x Psalms and once in Isaiah 42 uh says x sing to the Lord a new song um that x that's a a x scriptural x um a scriptural command and uh the fact x that you're you know you're kind of x getting us to think about the fact that x you know we have this resource sitting x in our pews as as Jim said x and we maybe are underutilizing it to x some degree um the fact that you're kind x of bringing some of this to our x attention is is good because it there's x there's a reason why in in the Psalms it x says to sing to the Lord a new song x Because as we get you know I understand x Jim that uh Jim uh boyo that we we x get or it can take the Comfort can take x a little bit of time um change does I x guess my English teacher in 10th Grade x or 11th grade said change terrifies and x that quote is kind of stuck with me it x does it does terrify sometimes we're get x a little uneasy about it but but x it's we can bring out uh praise to our x Heavenly Father and in new ways and x reach into our hearts in new ways that x that uh just singing the same x songs again and again and again doesn't x uh successfully do and your original x question Josh about x like what do people think about um you x know using the pil uh songs I'll share x that in the Ecclesia that that we were x in before coming to stoen that U there x was x an uh at some point PTL books were x bought and and we started incorporating x them into the the service more and it x really struck a chord with uh the young x people my kids generation and their x cousins and they just really x really um it connected with their uh x hearts in a way that the the older hymns x you know did not so there's some of us x you know x Butch you're you're welcome to to love x those old hymns like um and so why I x mean there's a lot of great old x hymns but we also have to recognize that x other people have preferences that are x different than ours and and uh and for x the for for a lot of the young people I x think there's something to be said for x you know singing a new song um yeah x Chris also mentioned we have a we I do x have a CD that it does have somebody was x asking about having the was it Phil um x having some of x those the PTL hearing the the the the x the piano or organ accompanyment or x whatever to that I x can I'll take a look at it I think it's x Peter Clawson who did it um and I could x share that with people if they're x interested that sounds good um going to x uh like Co weekends and you know just x general um stuff for the younger people x uh people do still enjoy you know a lot x of the um green book HS but yeah people x engage a lot with a lot of the um PTL x hymns um sing a lot of him sings like x that people always enjoy doing that so x it does bring a lot um to have the P x around to sing at groups with younger x people because you like that book and x the worship books as well are pretty x popular x Josh hello can you hear me okay yeah oh x brother Brian just mentioned about uh x the scripture saying sing a new song x uh I thought about this a long time go x not to your class and that is after uh x the Lord brought Israel out of Egypt and x it says they sang they sang a song and x uh x and and then I read in Revelation where x brother Brian just mentioned where he x say sing a new song well I said to x myself well if that's a new song what x was the old song that took me to Moses x and they praised the Lord and thank him x for being x delivered from the Egyptians but that x was only a temporary x salvation but when you go to Revelations x and they say sing a new x song That's the Song of the Saints where x there is not going to be any more death x uh uh so I'm just wondering uh what do x you think about x that in other words a new song x is it speaks of everlasting life in the x Kingdom which is everlasting life x eternal life but the ones that Moses x them saying that was only a temporary uh x LIF saving uh x song yeah we certainly use um Psalms to x help develop our faith and to learn to x understand things better that's how x people connect emotionally um to the x word of God is through songs often music x is power x you x know Wonder x also during the time of Daniel when they x was told to sing uhh when the image came x they they was supposed to sing all it x says all type of music it said and that x reminds me of the uh of the world and uh x so uh but anyway U now x just it's some of the songs that the x PTL uh to me this is my Pro opinion some x of the H didn't have sound like some of x the H that come from the x world y they can't be in um some of the x more stylistic like the world but as far x as I've ever seen there's nothing in the x PTL in terms of words or anything like x that that's out of line or against what x christadelphians would say Josh is it x not the case x that PTL actually has x more uh material of Christadelphian x origin than the the green Hy x book um I know there's plenty of stuff x in the PTL that's from christadelphians x I don't know the exact ratio I know x there's some in both that is made by x christadelphians um I believe and some x that's not I believe the worship books x are uh are entirely written by x christadelphians both the PTL and the x green book x or mixes and it's not you know x completely clean either way sometimes x you have a Melody that's written um you x know by a composer 300 years ago or x recently then words are written by a x Christadelphian or you might just have x you know a common hymn that everyone x knows like abide with me I don't believe x is written by x Christadelphian um other hymns you have x you know wellknown Melody that's just x written with more Christan lyrics or x lyrics slightly changed to not include x you know trinitarian thought or anything x like that and that's in both the green x book and the x PTL all right well it's 8:30 does x anybody have Josh do you have anything x more to add x or I don't think in x particular okay does anybody have x anything else before we um close with x prayer and you know obviously the x conversation can continue x afterwards yeah just a comment that our x vocabulary has x changed uh and some of the words in the x older hym books and older hymns those x old lyrics some of them I don't actually x understand what I'm singing and shame on x me for not figuring it out but um at at x the same time uh it's really important x to understand what we're singing about x so um that's just one more benefit I x think of using a more modern uh modern x hymns um but x again I think you can have my my x personal opinion is you can have a x combination of both you know we don't x have to limit ourselves and say oh well x we'll have to sing from the PTL or we'll x sing from the the green book or you x know they're all they're all seeking to x do the same thing from what I can x tell yeah some of the green book hymns x can be a little obtuse but you know with x some of these PTL hymns that change the x word slightly from like th your just x feels a little weird to me maybe to x someone who's you know grew up with that x it would feel weird to you know use thy x instead so yeah some extent it's what x you're used to and some extent um you x know they're just as viable either x way it's like those Heathen that go from x the NIV I see where you're coming from x Josh I can see where you're coming from