Making Do

Transcript

So tonight I wanted to talk about making do, or working with what we have, to keep faith, hope, and perspective clear when things are unclear. And what do I mean by that? In some sense, our walk in faith is defined by what we have and what we don't have, and how we deal with what we don't have, how do we deal with what we don't have, using what we've been given. Especially, how do we use the word of God to learn and to guide our steps for dealing with what we lack? There are a million things that you might say we lack, but I'd like to discuss together primarily about three major categories, those being lack of a complete understanding of the Bible, lack of what I'd call a blatant presence of God, and lack of a perfect ecclesial situation. I don't know if we'll get through all those, but I'd like to start with the complete understanding of the Bible. Because I think we are blessed with a community that knows the Bible as well as we do. But of course, we don't understand absolutely everything there is to know about the Bible, and we won't until God's kingdom is established on this earth. What things we are wronged about, I don't know, I wish I could say, but we know that none of us have a perfect understanding of God's word and plan. Even Jesus, who obviously understood God's plan the best, says in Matthew 24, Now, neither he nor the angels know when the kingdom will return. As 1 Peter 1 says, even angels long to look into these things. But those questions can eat away at us, as the Bible is the foundation of our faith. Our lack of a perfect understanding of it can often lead us to questioning, are we right in what we believe, or are we interpreting the Bible correctly in how we are dealing with this situation, whatever that situation may be. The Bible gives us a ton of great examples of this, because nobody in the Bible has a perfect understanding of these things either. One of the best examples of that, that comes to my mind, is John the Baptist. Jesus declares that there is none greater born of a woman than John, yet even he had some serious blind spots in his understanding of the word. He did not realize the Messiah would be sinless. He even questioned whether Jesus was the Messiah, sending a message to him in Matthew 11 saying, Are you the one who has come, or should we expect someone else? And so if John the Baptist is making such mistakes, how can we expect to do better? Another example that comes to mind for me is Josiah finding the book of the law. We know that he was already searching to do God's will, and in fact they found the book of the law during the preparation to repair the temple as he commanded. But to think of the horror, he must have felt, realizing just how far Judah had strayed away from following the word once he finally read the law. But he is a great example of what God expects from us. As God says to Josiah, Because your heart was responsive, and you had humbled yourself for the Lord, I have heard you. Even though he hadn't known what he was actually supposed to do, and as soon as he had the resources to know the word, he was expected to follow it, as he did. Our responsibility is to take the resources that we have and to learn from them to the best of our ability, as it says in 1 Corinthians, in that case, whatever you do, do it all for the glory of the Lord. And in our time, we are blessed to have greater resources for understanding the Bible than ever before. We have the Gospels, the New Testament that John the Baptist or those in the Old Testament didn't. These days we have incredible resources, either to study the Bible on our own, to connect with others, and to study the word together, such as Wednesday night class over Zoom. We can test our understanding against the word of God and by discussing it with others to come and reason together. The word of God is consistent. If our interpretation is true, it should be supported by the Bible as a whole. I think we've all seen the danger from plenty of people or groups before of misinterpreting one verse and building an entire understanding of the Bible on that.

Perhaps most annually, refusing to reassess that we might be wrong, we can sometimes get too competitive with each other and protective of our interpretations of the Bible. Our focus should always be building up one another and not allowing our pride to prevent us from approaching the word humbly and honestly. God wants us to search things out, and we have questions in our lives. He wants us to return to the word, study it, and interpret it honestly to apply it to our lives. He's given us the resources not to understand a thing perfectly, but to work together to learn to grow in our understanding of his word and put them to practice. Are there any thoughts on that? I'll say. You know, I remember once being in a meeting and somebody asked the audience whether, you know, I have changed your mind, you know, in the last year on something, you know, and then the question was, you know, with your current understanding of X, Y, Z, is it possible you could be wrong? And it was like a challenging question. And I think, Josh, you know, this whole idea is, you know, we have to have confidence that we have an understanding of the truth. But we also have to have the trust and the confidence that God will reveal to us if we are, if there are areas that we might be off on. Would you say that's true? Absolutely. Yeah. We need to be able to understand that the Bible has the truth, that we can learn from it. Also acknowledge that we're not perfect and we can learn, and we can't just buckle down on what we learned and ignore what other people have to say. So you know, one example of that, you know, from history might be, you know, the subject of the sun rising and setting. You know, some people would look at that and say, well, the Bible is wrong. You know, the sun doesn't rise, the sun doesn't set, the sun, you know, the earth revolves.

And yet then you might ask the question, well, is the Bible wrong or was the interpretation of the Bible wrong? And to me, I think that it's maybe a nuance, but we've got to be careful that we don't elevate our interpretation to the level of, you know, gospel truth. The gospel truth is what's revealed in the Bible, and we do our best to understand it. Am I going too far with that, do you think? No, I wouldn't say so. I don't know if others agree, that would seem so. Yeah. But, you know, again, it's comforting to know, for me, probably for everybody on the call, that, you know, the community that we're a part of,

you know, has been blessed by God to have an understanding of these first principle truths. And, yeah. Yeah. And I think you're hitting the nail on the head that it comes down to the principles as well, because the Bible is consistent throughout. It has the same ideas that repeat over and over. And what we can often can sometimes do is pull one thing and sort of base everything on that, whereas you can learn a lot just by seeing how things repeat throughout the Bible and seeing where it guides us.

I remember there was an article, I can't remember what, you know, I don't know if it was written by John Thomas or maybe Robert Roberts. But it was something along the lines, biblical truths and uncertain details. Somebody correct me if you know the difference, know what that title might have been. I don't, but I do remember that article. I don't remember exactly the title of the law. You probably read it when it was hot off the presses, old man. Maybe that was Barbara. I think it was Robert Roberts. That definitely rings a bell, but I don't remember the exact title. No, I think you both read it. I think, you know, we are incredibly blessed to know what we know.

To be given this pearl of truth, but we don't know all things. And, you know, I think all of us that have given talks or whatever have had that moment where somebody else gave a talk on the same subject and you went, oops, got that wrong. Their argument is better than mine. But, you know, if you don't have that humility, if you refuse to ever be wrong, then you're never going to grow, just not going to happen. What if you're never wrong? What if you're never wrong? If you're never wrong. I used to work with a girl years ago who said to me, you know, when I'm wrong, I admit it. I'm just like Jesus in that regard. And I said, I'm sorry, I forgot the spot where Jesus was wrong. Oh, well, you know what I mean. Like, yeah, you think you're never wrong. And I think we've all seen exhortations that talk on the same topic a million times. I'm sure we've all heard about six different exhortations about a rich man going through the eye of a needle and heard six different interpretations of that verse. See, Jesus obviously met one of them and it can be hard for us to figure out which one it was and also to not get defensive on the one we pick, as it were, and to be able to accept others' opinions. Of course, we won't know exactly. And in that case, if you're going to argue over what the eye of the needle means, you're going to lose the whole point of what Jesus was trying to say.

Yeah, that's the other thing. We can't let the arguments between us or arguments over it to pull us away from what the actual point of what is being said is. Sure. Well, we also, you know, you got to focus also on the what do we know? Not so much what we don't know. There's only one gospel, period.

There should be no confusion at all that we have the right gospel. We're warned. There'll be others. Don't believe them. The one we're teaching you, that's the one. And that's the way to salvation. And we should have complete confidence to stand. It's not my truth. However, we've grabbed on to that truth. That's been revealed to us. You know, like the parables of Jesus. Yeah, you're going to come up with, like you said, Josh, a lot of interpretations. And there's probably multiple lessons. But there's some also very hardcore principles, as we talked about, and especially, you know, what that gospel message is. Is it do you have to be baptized? Well, you go to the Christian world, you have all types of different answers to that. We would say, oh, yeah, you do. Right. So, you know, so those those basic principles, the gospels, those are things that we have to. Those are the things we have confidence in. Absolutely. Those are the things the Bible makes crystal clear to us generally. I like your talking about, you know, it's the Bible truth, not our truth, as it were. And we can't get, you know, we can't make it our truth. It's got to go back to the word. You know, the word says all repeatedly. We need to peruse through the, not peruse, but we need to search through the Bible. Whenever we have such questions about a topic, not just go off the cuff, expecting it'll fit what we want. Can I add something to that? Sure thing. To what Brother Butch said, there's only one gospel.

Colossians chapter one, I think it's verse 23, it talks about those who were alienated because their evil works. But now they've been drawn into the gospel. And I think it says, you won't be found in the day of judgment, reprobable. Christ won't have to reprove us.

And we won't be found blamable if we stay settled and grounded in the hope of the gospel. And that fits right in there with what Butch said. It's the hope of the gospel. Colossians chapter one, verse 23, but it starts at verse 21. Thank you.

Thank you. Yeah, to finish up with what Butch said, and he's right, it's not about what we lack. It's about not allowing what we lack to distract us from what we have. And we have the gospel. We have the truth. And we just can't get bogged down. But, you know, we need to acknowledge there's things that we don't understand and be able to accept that, move forward in our faith. Any other comments on that? Well, I would just say this. I had a situation years ago with a couple of guys who wanted to talk about why certain things in the Bible were wrong. And what they were talking about was the genealogies that were listed. And their attitude was they can't believe the Bible because if you look, you know, microscopically at the genealogies, you'll see that it can't be the number that they said. And I remember saying to them, if you're bogged down in the number of genealogies, you've already missed the point. And I think that's part of what you're talking about. Somebody later on gave a great answer to why the genealogies the way that they were. But to take everything to such an extreme that almost like, you know, Thomas saying, unless I stick my fingers in the side, I won't believe. Some people do that with the Bible. You know, as soon as somebody has something that sounds like the Bible conflict itself, they can really grab on and say, see, this is why you can't believe the Bible. When we whereas we've learned that all those things can be explained and whether or not we know the explanation or not, we know the Bible is true and we know that it is harmonious. Josh, if I might just add to what Bro. Jim was saying, that's why it's faith unto faith. You know, if we approach the Bible that I don't believe it's the Word of God and I'm looking to find evidence that it isn't, then they won't. It kind of reminds me of Macbeth. He never thought the forest was going to march because he said it's impossible for a forest to march. Well, that's not what the vision of what the witch had seen. OK, and so we go to approach the Bible in the sense that we know it's the truth and we know there's an explanation for this. We will hunt for that explanation and find it, whereas others won't. So, you know, just faith unto faith. All right. The next one I wanted to talk about was discussing what to do without the, I'll call it the blatant presence of God and finding connection with our faith even when things seem distant. What I mean by that is we don't have miracles, you know, and we are far distant from the direct events of the Bible because that we may long for more direct evidence of his presence. You know, we don't get a pillar of fire leading us out of Egypt or sea splitting for us to walk across. So we may end up asking, why are we still waiting for the return of our Lord Jesus Christ? Why is it taking so long? Or why does God not reveal himself clear? Or on a personal note, is God hearing our prayers? And we may not have direct signs and miracles the way they did to, as say, during the Exodus. And we live in a world that is often hostile to the world as we are discussing. Either people will tell you it's false or will tell you overwhelmingly that our interpretation of it is wrong. Of course, we can search the word and see that it's not true, but the pressure we feel from others can often be overbearing.

And that time difference must likewise be overbearing, that it was so long ago that the events of the Bible took place. But again, we're not the first to have felt distant from God or from or like our connection to God isn't as it should be. For example, when the Ark was taken by the Philistines for those seven months, the first Samuel 5, which actually inspired this talk. So I was thinking about what must it be like to be one of those priests after the Ark is taken? And you still have to go through serving the temple and, you know, taking care of the sacrifices, things like that, knowing the Ark is missing. And that the temple and the tabernacle that is built around that Ark feels empty now that it isn't there anymore. How do you perform your duties with the same enthusiasm and love when the Ark isn't there? And, you know, I thought about that and realized we go through the same thing. You know, I know what that feels like. That's what we do. The Ark may not be physically there, just as our Lord is not physically with us. But that can't prevent us from doing our duty as priests of the Lord. There is a sense of wrongness or absence without the Ark, just as there is without our Lord. And from bottom Jews, they might say without the temple, as they pray by the wailing wall, hoping for its return. But eventually the Ark did return, as the Lord will for us. But, you know, we often rely on those physical monikers of God's presence and often they fall away. Likewise, the temple was destroyed and the Ark taken permanently. Or the Israelites were taken away into captivity in Babylon or Persia. Or perhaps most similarly to us, the silence from God after the book of Malachi for several hundred years.

And God's people did suffer from their distance from him. And yet that can also be when people have the opportunity to reassess and to return to him. In our case, his waiting also gives us more time to teach people and to bring people into the faith. If it hadn't been for 2000 years, none of us would be here or to have the opportunity to come to God's family. And what we can't do is panic or grow impatient and assume that because we want the kingdom to come sooner rather than later, that something must be wrong. God works in his own time and we can see his vision coming to pass through prophecy. You can see that in the parable of the wheat and the tares in Matthew 13, saying, Do you want us then to go and to gather up the tares? No, lest while you gather up the tares, you also uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together till the harvest. Panic, which is often what the Hebrews did, time and time again in the wilderness. And anything went wrong, they'd often freak out and run away from God. When Moses spent too long up on the mountain of Sinai, they panicked, saying, We don't know what happened to him. Craft us an idol that will assure us of God's presence. Or they panicked when they saw the strength of the people in the land that would be Israel, instead of putting their trust in the Lord who got them that far. And as much as we may want our Lord physically here with us, our faith doesn't need that. The Israelites did not need the Ark of the Covenant. The Ark was a symbol to direct their faith, just as the law was a guide to their faith and not the end-all be-all being a believer. As Jesus puts it to Thomas, Thank you, Dad, for stealing my line. Because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. The lack we deal with is part of our journey in faith. God wants us to notice that we lack and to desire a world where God is whole and all, see that the world we live in is not enough. And so we should feel that lack of Jesus' presence in our world. But that should not extend to feeling that God is not a part of our lives. He is still acting in our lives to this day. And we can see that through the prophecies in the Bible coming to fruition. Israel returning being the most obvious one, as well as everything that's going on right now. And that you've comforted us both in seeing that the word of God is true and in seeing that God is still acting in the world. And that if he's acting in the world, he's also acting in our lives. So Jesus will return one of this time and we blatantly clear when it does.

Many people in the world have been fooled by somebody claiming to be Jesus returned, even though the Bible states his return will be unmistakable. And that he has made people hardened by the very idea of his return. Well, I don't think that's as much of a concern in our community. I do think we can get disheartened when things don't go the way we expect. You know, just yesterday, people were getting hyped up about the rapture happening. It, of course, didn't happen. And people's reactions were, you see, it's never going to happen. It's all crazy talk. And while we don't exactly believe in the same thing, I think we can similarly get discouraged by these sorts of things in our community. I'd be getting repeatedly disheartened by things not coming to pass. We need to keep both our excitement for his return while also not getting wrapped up in needing his imminent return in order to find strength in our faith. What we have been given is enough. Any thoughts on that? Yes, Richard. I think one of the things that can really sustain us is if we keep the vision. And I remember, but anyway, the vision and also with the faith, if we just remember those words that it's impossible for God to lie and that he's a good God of truth. And as it says in Colossus one, if we hold fast to the one gospel and not deviate from that, I think the thing of getting away and leaving the truth would come from losing the vision. And our desire takes over for the things of the world, unless you look at it at 1 John 2. I think it says, love not the things that are in the world, but God just speaks with those things. They're going to pass away. And if we really believe that, for me, I can't see myself turning away. I can't. Thank you. Thank you. What's that quote? I think you're trying to get from, is it from Proverbs? My people die without vision. I think maybe that's what you're talking about, Richard. But we do have to keep that vision. And sometimes anyone can get out there and they can say, Christ is coming tomorrow. It can be within our community. It's not going to phase me. I know it's going to happen. It's going to happen sometimes. So for those people that become disheartened or leave because someone said the kingdom of God was coming and it hasn't, what's happened to them is they become wearied. They're not patient enough. They're sick of waiting. They get consumed by the things of the world and they get wearied and waiting. So, I mean, we know the kingdom's coming. And I mean, we know it's coming soon too, but no one's going to push me off that pedestal by what they say, when it's going to come or it's not going to come. It's too late for that. I'm all right. I bought in.

Yeah, you don't want to take away. I mean, that's the problem most of Christianity. There is no vision. They don't know where you're going. And I think you're right that people get wearied of continuing because people act like this is, you know, a battle we need to outlast. We need to outlast sin. And really this is the opportunity for us to glorify our God, to bring people in to his faith. And so when people get disheartened for one reason or another, perhaps it's, you know, thinking the return will be soon and that day passing or it could be many other things. People lose hope because they see it as, you know, and now I have to wait longer. And really, we should approach our current time with joy and hopefulness in order to glorify God to bring people in to strengthen his family. Josh, if I the verse that Butch was reaching for was where there is no vision, the people perish. And I remember looking at that many, many years ago that the word vision there, it isn't our vision either. It is the visions provided by the prophets. It's a vision. It's very much connected to the word of God. So it's a vision given to us. It's not sometimes we think we have to, you know, hold on to all of it, but it isn't our vision. It's not something it's something that's been provided to us. Yeah, the Hebrew writer speaks about what you just said, Brother Chris, about the vision. Moses refused to be called the daughter of the son of Pharaoh's daughter. He wanted to suffer with the children of God to enjoy his sins for a season. Oh, boy. I lost my thought on the other thing that was going too fast. But yeah, go ahead. Somebody else, go ahead. Just a thought to share, Josh or others. I don't know if you've heard the rhetorical argument where you might be talking to an atheist or an unbeliever. And you can ask them, well, what would it take for you to believe? Like, what would convince you to believe in God? And typically the answer you would expect is something like, oh, it would take, you know, God would have to appear in front of me, you know, in blazing glory with all his angels. And then I would believe. Or there would have to be some sort of miracle that couldn't be explained, such as a mountain being thrown into the sea, something like that, something just irrefutable. You know, that's typically the kind of answer you would expect to get. And you can kind of respond to that and say, well, don't you think that after God had appeared to you that you might start to seriously doubt what you'd seen and might question your sanity and you might even check yourself into a mental institute? Or, you know, when this mountain is thrown into the sea, all of a sudden the scientists would start looking for some sort of phenomenological explanation for why it happened, you know, looking for some natural reason to explain it. And I think by kind of pointing that out, you know, the idea is that the unbeliever is maybe prompted to think, well, maybe I've set the bar for the evidence that I need to believe a little bit too high. And it kind of shifts the frame of their reasoning a little bit because the fact of the matter is that there are many, many reasons to believe. There's many reasons for us to be confident. And we don't need to have, you know, conversations with God as if you were on the other end of a telephone. You know, that's not how God is necessarily speaking to us in these days. We all have had the experience of God's presence near us in one way or another. And every other explanation that you point to for belief, Josh, I think is entirely valid. We just need to lean into those things. And really the marvel of God's creation, our own existence, our sense of morality, you know, before we even get into fulfilled prophecy and archaeology and all the typical things that we lean on, life is amazing and it's God given. And yeah, I think that hopefully is enough for a lot of us. And what we have is incredible. You know, the world is amazing in its beauty and the word is amazing in its beauty. Yeah, I think we can often start to rely too much on things we can't doubt. And of course, there's always going to be doubt until that day comes. You know, faith being the hope for things unseen, you know, belief in those that are true. But, you know, we need to understand that we can't have everything we want in terms of proof. Otherwise, there would be no faith. You know, if God just declared everything to us immediately, we would have no decision to make.

It makes me think of the parable of Lazarus. You know, if they're not going to believe Abraham and Moses, they're not going to believe me even if I raise somebody from the dead. That's just, that's human nature. If, like Ben says, if you don't want to believe and there's a lot of reasons not to believe, all of them self-centered. If you don't want to believe, then it doesn't matter what happens. Like Ben says, you might end up in an insane asylum. But I'm not going to believe. And that's human nature. Josh, I found what I wanted. Can I say it? Yeah, of course. It pertained to the vision. Hebrews 11, it says, By faith, Abraham, when he was tried off, I'm sorry, verse 16. But now they desire a better country. That is, in the heavenly, wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he had prepared for them a city. And that could be tied into the vision, I believe. Yeah. We should look forward to what we have to come. When talking about lack, what we lack should draw us to what we have. What we have is an incredible hope. What we have is when we feel doubt, we can go back to the Word. We can look into the world. We can see the beauty of the Word. We can see prophecy. We can see all kinds of things. But we can't let doubts strangle our faith. Can't let what we don't have strangle what we do have. Any other thoughts?

To the last one I want to talk about, which is talking about lacking on an ecclesial level. Making do on an ecclesial level, rather. Working together to get done what needs to get done. What we lack in this respect is one mind. We might think, why can't people see things my way? Why can't we get these things done? Or how can I work with these people? That's a constant struggle. We might feel like the ecclesia isn't where it needs to be, that we can't get along with people. But no ecclesial situation is perfect, nor can it be. It's full of imperfect people, all with different ideas and mentalities, and as it should be. If we are to reason together, how can we learn anything from one another if we all thought the same way? And needing to work together with other people is essential to our faith. Because our walk in faith can't just be about us. Just as Jesus gave his life for us, we are to support one another in faith. That means working with other people who are flawed, just as we are. As Jesus puts in Matthew 18, Truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am with them. We cannot glorify God to the full extent alone. For as good a king as Josiah was, to go back to him, as dedicated as he was personally, he wasn't able to get the people on his side. And therefore he wasn't nearly as successful in glorifying God as his great-grandfather Hezekiah was.

As Paul puts it in 1 Corinthians, God has put the body together, giving great honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, each part suffers with it. If one part is honored, each part rejoices with it. Now you are the body of Christ, each one of you is a part of it. So we all lack individually. As a whole, we should be whole. As a whole body of Ecclesia, as a whole body of Christ. But struggling to work with others is nothing new, of course. Many of the disciples struggled to work together. Even Paul, who said that famous earlier quote about Ecclesia working as one body, struggled to work with John Mark, who he did not trust. Well, thankfully his companion Barnabas did. On the other hand, Paul called out Peter for refusing to work, or refusing to eat with some people and preference of the Jews. And so we need to be able to work together. We need to be able to correct one another in faith, and not in divisiveness, not in one-upping one another. We need to be able to strengthen one another above all else. And there are many things we need to avoid when building Ecclesia, when supporting Ecclesia. But first and foremost, I would say is pride. It needs to not be about us. It needs to not be about me being right, or you being right. It needs to be about humbly working together to build each other up. Because, again, an Ecclesia can't be one person. One alone we lack. Together we are stronger. It should not be a competition. We also can't be too negative in building up Ecclesia. Ecclesias need to strengthen one another. We need to appreciate and support the good, as well as work to improve what's going wrong. So we need to find strength in different perspectives. And also parties need to be able to work together. We need to see the strength in one another. We need to see the benefit that other will bring. Not losing sight of the communal goal. We have the advantage, in theory, of having the same final goal of glorifying God, of strengthening his Ecclesia and spreading his message. And together we need to create a healthy, productive environment. What's on that? So from an Ecclesial standpoint, Josh, I think the counsel that you're offering, that we're all one, is so important. Cindy and I were chatting the other day, and one of the things that we appreciate so much about our Ecclesia, for example, is we very rarely hear people talking about those people. They.

You know, I don't understand why they did this.

You know, it's, we're all in it together. And I think that's a model that we should aspire to consistently. Like we're doing this. We're doing this. We're having thought. They're having a thought. Of course, someone's doing this. You know, it's like, we, we are involved as well. I agree with you all. It's easier said than done, obviously. You know, it's, it's hard sometimes, especially if you think you're absolutely sure you're right. You know, it's hard sometimes to say, all right, we're going to do what the Ecclesia wants to do, even though I'm absolutely right.

That's, you know, That's the attitude that creates that we, we and them sort of thing. You know, I think you're right, Josh. When you said the first thing is, is, is, is to very pride.

Service in the Ecclesia is, is a humbling experience. And that's a good thing.

And it's a unifying experience. And that's a good, that's a good thing as well. Like you pointed out, none of us are perfect. We all have flaws. And yet as a community, as a family, we can be whole. You know, accepting each other's, each other's, idiosyncrasies. Because we are all in this together and we are all working towards the same goal. So I think those things are vitally important. And I think when it, when they are followed. It's a beautiful thing. It's, it's a beautiful thing to go to service on Sunday. And know that your family is there and, and sharing in this incredible walk that we're going through. It's, it's. It can't be measured in my opinion.

Yeah. And you're right in saying it's easier to say, you know, we need to let go of our pride than it is to actually put it into practice. You know, cause it's often hard to, if you think strongly that the way you're you think of doing things is the right way. You know, Make it about being right. Not working together with others. One example I've used before is during COVID. I was generally on the side of things that we should just completely shut down. It's more safe that way. And then a lot of people were saying, no, we need to, at least with a skeleton crew, continue on. It's important for people to have that. And I didn't, you know, I wasn't angry about it or anything at the time, but I just didn't agree with that. I thought, you know, We will be fine. And we have resources. We're in collegial faith. We'll be okay. But in the years past that the amount of people I've heard say, how much that meant to them that they had, you know, something to listen to during those times that you had a service going on was immeasurable. People felt that was extremely important. And so I, you know, I don't think I was morally wrong necessarily about saying, I don't think we should do this. It was more a safety concern. I was incorrect, I think in essence. And, you know, if you fight like, no, I'm not morally wrong here. I'm right. I'm doing the right thing. Like, no, you can still be wrong. You still need to be able to understand other people's perspectives, work with people and sometimes not do things your way.

Yeah, Josh, I'm always reminded when we start talking about pride, about the disciples at the Last Supper,

it says that there was strife between them, who would be the greatest in the kingdom of God. And it took Christ, you know, washing their feet to get through to them, that that was the total wrong attitude to have. You know, we're not to strive with each other to be great, to lord it over each other. We're all servants. And that's the attitude we need to have. We're here to serve each other, just like Christ served the disciples directly, but he served all mankind by what he preached and what he did in his sacrifice. So, you know, we can never measure up to that, but that's who we should strive to be like, obviously. But, you know, the apostles, they got caught up in pride too. It's a very human response. You know, when you have self-worth and you think that, you know, you got it all figured out.

Yeah, so much of what we see from the disciples is them competing with each other rather than building each other up. I don't really think we see much of them supporting each other at all until after Jesus passes, or at least until after he's crucified. Well, yeah, they definitely had strife, Josh, but I would say that on a level that I think on a very personal level, that they did support each other, because, you know, they had to go out and they had to preach. They were part of the 70 that Jesus sent out, and they sent them out by twos, I believe. So maybe, you know, the smaller groups maybe got along better with other people. You know what I'm saying? Like group dynamics, I think, played a part in it. But definitely, once Christ had ascended to the heavens, they definitely got together and supported each other. Those first few chapters in Acts are just awesome about them coming together. They were in prayer. Holy Spirit comes down, descends upon them, and from that point on, they were together. They supported each other. Yeah, I think, and I don't mean to give their impression, I think during the Gospels, they certainly were a family, and they certainly loved each other and cared for each other. But in a sense, I think it was more of a brotherly, they had a brotherly competition, and it was about, you know, trying to help one another, but also being competitive about it. And it isn't until afterwards, it's like, okay, what can I do for the others? How do I support them instead of focusing on me as well? Yeah, no, I got you, Josh, absolutely. Yeah, a brotherly competition, but you wouldn't know anything about that, but it can happen. Yeah, the sons of thunder, yeah.

And there wasn't much competition. So true, so true. Hey, it's nice to hear your voice, Jason. Yeah, who is that, by the way? Who are you? Great to be back, man, all the way from Israel. Nice class, Josh, thank you. Thank you.