Made in God’s Image

Transcript

um so you have my my title slide up there it's spoiling it a little bit but I want to give some background for the topic I selected for the month of January um basically it began with my sister-in-law Becca uh who you may know and her husband Seth Thomas um they've been holding a monthly New England cyc gathering for uh basically all the youth from the area eclesia a lot of them don't have large cyc's in their home mclees so the thought was hey we she get together more than once a year at bible school and and have some sort of uh regular meeting um so they meet once a month in the Cranston Hall and I think I think Megan and will and and some of of the stoen young people joined as well um they asked me to do the one for the month of January and Seth was asking for a topic and I suggested well what do you think about um a topic of how to think about Sin and selfworth if you get this this is something maybe that would resonate with the young people you know they're kind of in this early stage where they're forming their values and their identity and they're growing up and they're probably starting to encounter some of the thorny issues of life and uh that can be very confusing bewildering time um you know so I don't think I pick the easiest topic to talk about um and I figured I I'd probably need some some serious help to to get through it and I stumbled across this book um that's been in my library for I think four years I don't know if you can see it there it's called by Design and in God's image self-esteem from a judeo-christian worldview it was actually recommended to me by Sister Marth 11 um you may know David and cor's daughter and and I never picked it up and read it it's one of those books you know got Amazon delivery and put it on the shelf and that was the last I saw of it but it's it it's come in handy in preparing this this devotion for the cyers um so I just want to share something from uh the second paragraph of the book's

introduction um the central message of This Book Is that our self-esteem ultimately rests in the belief that each one of us is made in the image and likeness of God the judeo-christian faith has always held the view that the origin of humankind is directly linked to a creative Act of a personal God and that God purposefully and specifically by Design created human beings In His

Image what I'll be emphasizing is that the ultimate basis of a secure and healthy sense of self-worth is directly related to the level of accepting understanding and experiencing the truth of our being image bearers of God this one truth explains why God has placed such a great value and worth on human life why God loves each one of us personally it explains why Jesus Christ loves you and me and willingly gave his life to become Our

Savior um so this has been a really interesting uh book to read uh in a lot of ways it's it's been comforting to be reminded that God sees something inherently worthwhile about Mankind something worth saving

God can see in us not just uh uh human potential we hear a lot about but spiritual potential that we're designed to bear his image and

likeness and so our our Christadelphian teaching um it often focuses on man's Fallen State the problems of our sinful Hearts um and that can lead to feelings of Shame and guilt over our humanity and possibly uh Despair and hopelessness uh we may question well well are we even still in God's image um or did that condition only ever apply to Adam and Eve before the fall

um you know I I think our views about uh human sinfulness our nature and inclinations um it does have a bearing on on these questions about self-worth and self-esteem you know and even talking about this topic a little bit um you know it I I think we're a little sensitized to this right you know we don't want to talk too much about ourselves or how we feel about ourselves because um we we understand that uh it's all about making God great and making ourselves small in some ways um so so I I think to have a healthy and biblical sense of well how am I supposed to see myself this is the me is how I experience the world and how I experience God and my brothers and sisters um this is our frame of reference so we we should have an accurate picture of ourselves uh not one that's prideful or puffed up because that would be dishonest um and not one that's that's graveling and completely sees no value because that's not how God sees us um so you know as I was going through this I'm very conscious of of sort of what the worldview is of these sorts of topics you know a view that has not been influenced by scripture and Bible teaching

and then um the possibility of going to sort of an extreme in our own thinking um with respect to implying a lack of self-worth on the basis that we have this sinful nature and inclination hopefully that makes sense a little bit you know I I I do think we we could compartmentalize um what we know about these topics you know we we have in the Ecclesia right where we know that the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked um but the culture is telling us to love ourselves unconditionally to affirm all of our thoughts and desires to live our best lives you hear all this kind of stuff um in the world and here's the Ecclesia telling the membership how we have to crucify our our passions we have to crucify the flesh with its its desires um you know Paul says I know that nothing good dwells in me um and if we don't address these sorts of questions and this is why we're talking about it with the teenagers if we if we can't handle these questions um we may just end up thinking well that must mean I'm worthless that must mean I have no value because of my sinful flesh and desperately wicked heart

um so so there there is a logical disconnect there's a a leap that's being made if we see implicit in our our state um a reason not to find Value in ourselves

um so you know I I hoping that with the teenagers we can address some of the cultural issues some of the the messaging and programming uh that they're hearing from Social Media their colleagues their classmates um all the people that we interact with and um you know engaging with kind of the biblical perspective to kind of sort through the Clutter what's good what's bad what can get tossed out what do we need to redeem so that's that's sort of the basis for some of the thoughts um in today class I just wanted to go through some kind of definitional things start in Genesis and look at what is actually said about man's creation um but hopefully uh over the course of of the month kind of bring this around to you know kind of more application oriented stuff so so how does that sound any any thoughts or comments at this

point all

right sounds good to me Ben

thanks

Steve so the scriptural jumping off point is Genesis 1 I'll read the passage God said let us make man in our image after our likeness let them have dominion over the fish of the sea over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the Earth over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth so God created man in his own image in the image of God he created him male and female fale he created

them so the first thing to know here is the pr pronouncement that God makes here it's unlike anything that's preceded it right um in verse 11 um in Genesis 1:1 he says let the Earth bring forth and plant life appears in verse 20 he says let the waters bring forth and ocean life and marine life appears

but here in verse 26 he says let us make so it's a different kind of command it's a different kind of creative act I think it implies an extra level of attention and consideration to what would be a special creature designed to Bear God's image and likeness so there's there's something about um this image in likeness that's unique to mankind is not shared or found in the rest of creation uh so so so that's a clue we're just going through and Gathering some Clues uh because otherwise these terms are are kind of hard to understand um we'll do a brief word study in a moment but generally speaking image and likeness they kind of mean exactly what they sound like uh image referring to physical appearance and likeness being similarity right it's a comparative term and that's that's how these words in in Hebrew are are most often used

um you know but but what is it that's unique about humankind um we just said that this isn't something that's applied to any of the other creative created beings um so you could say you know well man doesn't resemble any of the other creatures that we found in the animal kingdom um one one author I was reading said well you know the the unique thing about Mankind is that they walk upright on two legs I said oh you know that that kind of makes sense that is that is interesting and then you think about it well literally all birds walk on two legs so you know bird life does uh I think the primates have some limited bipedalism they call it bipedalism when you walk on two legs um but you think about okay human Locomotion that's that's pretty interesting that's pretty unique there isn't really an animal that walks like a human being does and it's really interesting to think I'm just providing this kind of very narrow application in which okay maybe this is a sense in which we're made in God's image um you know this whole expression of walking uprightly you know it's it's used to signify uh moral things like right God's righteousness is to to walk upright thing and we we even have like the um the healing of the crippled woman in Luke 13 who couldn't raise herself up and and Jesus healed her so there's like the spiritual Dimension to a a physical thing

um so so you you might look at this and say at the way that humans are designed to move and say oh here's a unique way in which God has designed human kind there's even a spiritual lesson taught from the physical reality the the literal upright walking is mirrored in spiritual uprightness that's that's kind of interesting to think

about so um I I did encounter I was looking through this sort of uh people taking image and likeness and kind of applying a very narrow applic oh it means this specific thing but the terms themselves are used in Genesis one are are pretty broad they're pretty General um so it didn't seem appropriate to just pick one thing and say oh this is what it means um so you know this is just sort of some preliminaries I was approaching this with because Genesis one on its own doesn't doesn't tell you a whole lot about what is meant by image and likeness um so we have to look at the rest of scripture um and so I I figured we' take a two-prong approach here first we're going to see how the terms image and likeness are used elsewhere in scripture um to get a better idea of the terms meaning and and range of meaning I think is important as well and then we'll look specifically at where this specific concept of God man being made in God's image where that concept is being invoked elsewhere in scripture um so we'll look at the words first then we'll look at the the

concept okay so plan catch up

here we're going to go backwards and start start with

likeness um so just as an example 2 Kings 16 king ahaz of Judah at war with the kingdom of Israel and Syria he reaches out to the king of Assyria right so there's four parties in the mix and says hey can we make an alliance right so Assyria is like yeah we don't like Syria or Israel either Assyria comes down attacks Damascus kills the king of Syria um and and king ahaz of Judah goes up to Damascus to meet with the king of Assyria uh to survey their conquest and and he sees this fancy altar that catches his eye um so he he meets tigth piser in Damascus he sees the Altar and he sent to UAH the priest the likeness of the Altar and its pattern according to all its work uh so clearly this is being used to describe a physical object it's it's a blueprint or scale model or a sketch on the back of a napkin that a has sends to Gig and says hey I want one like this right so you can see the comparison the similarity um so this is an example of a very literal sense of of physical appearance that that likeness is being using okay uh so there's a couple exceptions where likeness is being used to describe something other than simply physical appearance um so the first one is Psalm 58 the wicked are estranged from the womb they go astray as soon as they be born speaking lies their poison is like the poison of a serpent they are like the deaf Adder that stops her ear so the same term um the MTH I think I don't know should not pronounce these um but the same term that's found in Genesis 1 vers 26 the question being for us is well how are the lies of the wicked like the poison of a serpent in what sense are they similar are they liquid excretions with neurotoxic properties no do they jet out of the wicked spangs no they're not like the LI the poison of a serpent in those sense but the lies of the wicked are similar to poison of a serpent in that they're deadly they're harmful those are the sorts of things that are being inferred so these are not it's not literally like the poison uh but in some other sense um so the idea here is to explore the range and meaning of the terms I'm not a linguist we got some people that are but you can look at how the same Hebrew term is used in other context how it's being interpret uh translated I should say um and applied and say okay this is actually kind of a wide meaning term I'll give you another example in Psalm 102 ver6 the psalmist says I am like a pelican of the Wilderness I am like an owl of the desert so again how was David like a pelican in the wilderness was he feathered did he have a beak no obviously not this is clearly talking about a bird in a solitary place um it's an expression of David's

loneliness and so you see the term like can reference something other than just visual similarity there's a lot of different levels on which this term can be

used any question on on

likeness just interrupt me if there's any thoughts comments or questions happy to to do

that so Ben likeness is the physical side of things

right it very often is um but I think these second two passages are are saying that there's something Beyond kind of a literal physical meaning that that the term can be used like it's a general descriptor right it's it's a comparison term so you know the lies of the wicked they're not literally like poison they're not they're not going to cause your body to have a toxical logical response right but they are deadly and harmful so there's a different sense in which they're like the lies of the wicked or like the poison of that ask so are you suggesting that uh as it relates to God likeness would be like his character or are you going to get into that later in the class yeah I think I think right now it's just kind of laying the groundwork for what the terms mean because you know we we need some more guidance on well how far can we go with this I I mean very clearly I agree Steve I I think it's talking about something that's that's more than just um you know what God looks like well what does God look like anyway I mean that's that's a question we're gonna have to take on at some point as well um but you know kind of the Primitive or even I guess the face value understanding of this term is that there's some appearance of God that man is bearing right and the reality of it is probably a little more nuanced so I think looking at these terms to understand their range of meaning will will the term likeness even tolerate an interpretation Beyond something that's very superficial so I think of Jesus when um you know he says if you've seen me you've seen the

father um

yeah so you know to me he's exhibiting the the likeness of God in that

way yeah that's that's a great great example Steve because it shows just how dangerous taking something at face value or just the plain meaning of the terms could be right because we right oh you're looking at God no you're not actually looking at God you're seeing some aspect of God's character in Christ

right you know we can we can see that in our in our own like lineages so Jim Sullivan showed us those those pictures from our ecclesial history and one of those pictures was a photo of my dad and me and I had a couple of people come up and say you know I never really realized how much you look like your dad but that picture you know your likeness was so similar so in that case you know there's the physical side of things but there are also mannerisms that we tend to have you know I look at my boys and they've got a lot of the same mannerisms that I have and I probably have the same ones that my dad has you know Chris Hampton exhorted and you can see markup there right um and I think all of us are uh you know designed to sort of reflect the image and likeness of God and in the same way that we reflect the image and likeness of our parents right

yeah no and it's really it's nice to hear that too when somebody else can tell that you are like your father you're like okay that's that's there's comfort in that um I love being told that I usually more get often get it from my mom's side because I think just genetically that's the side of the family that I favor um you know so it's usually a comparison to to my Uncle Chris or my grandfather Rick who's asleep in Christ now um but but it it it tells you that there's a it reaffirms that connection that you have to your your forebearers right um and I I think it's the same thing if somebody looked at me and said I was being Christlike I was exemplifying the father the way that that Jesus does I mean I'm happy to hear that I'm happy to see that somebody's noticed that that family resemblance if you will

right right in the margin of my Bible in Genesis 1 27 I have for where where it says image of God I have the word

represent uh and amongst everything else you said which I totally agree with I think you know when God told Adam and Eve to subdue the Earth you know they would to do it representing God to do it you know in the in under God's the way God wanted it done and I think that you know resemblance um you know image all you know we were to mankind was to represent God on the Earth Earth because he was giving the Earth to man you know here you go you know follow my laws and Commandments and represent me and subdo all things and so that's one of the words I had written down I don't know if you would come up with that one but yeah I think represents is good

because represent can mean a lot of things too that that word has a range of meaning you can be a representative right so you're uh like a delegate right represent somebody else um you could say a representation is like like an image in its literal sense a kind of a reproduction or fact simile of another object

um yeah that's that's that's a good one Mark thanks for sharing

that um yeah so I think you know between image and likeness the term likeness probably is more flexible um that it has a wider range of meaning um because it's kind of a comparison term and you can compare on a lot of different levels whereas the term image uh the Hebrew Salam is

um it it does primarily mean um a physical representation to use your term Mark

uh but but more in a physical sense um so I'll just go through a few of

um the ways that the image is used if that's okay and I apologize if this is a little bit um plotting initially you know the the word studies and things I I think it's interesting it kind of helps give a sense of of meaning um but what we want to get to ultimately is the stuff that Steve was bringing up which is really well how how are we if we are designed to be image bearers of most high god um what what are the implications for our walk and spirituality um so so I'm sorry just please bear with me we'll go through a few of these and then we'll get to some of the meat um so in in Ezekiel 23 we see this term image coming up again and and Ezekiel 23 has this parable of the Kingdom of Israel in the Kingdom of judah's infidelity to God and in this particular verse judah's lust after the Babylonians is described as um increasing her prostitution she saw men carved on the wall images of the calans carved in bright red um and this passage seems to be describing some of the the stone reliefs we see carve from that period um here's one that you might be familiar with uh it's called The Bernie relief um and it's thought to be um the Pagan goddess

Ishtar which is referenced in the Bible all right so this is a terracotta plaque it's it's over 3500 years old it's very ancient um but there's still traces of red pigment on um on on the image uh the the the figure in the image I should say um so they they used this red ochre pigment back then which is essentially iron oxide or or rust so you know how rust has a reddish tinge they would collect all that rust and use it to enhance their carvings so here's um kind of a concept of of what this might have looked like originally and you can see it's quite St

um um so so this might have been the sort of thing that was being thought of um inel 23 these images of the calans in in bright red uh I thought that was kind of interesting

um so there there's a very literal sense in which image just means kind of what we think of as as like a carved or Raven image that we hear about so often in the Bible now interestingly enough the the the term translated Graven image in Bible is is not actually this word it's a different Hebrew word um but but still this term can be used in the context of idolatry um for example during jeho the priest reforms um it says that all the people went the house of Baal and tore down baal's altars and his images they broke in pieces and it's the same idea so again kind of the primary usage of the term is is a physical representation so before we go in saying oh the image of God is his character the image of God is is some moral attribute of of who he is I don't think we can go and say all of that based on Genesis 1 and the terminology that's being used itself but if we can establish that there's a range of meaning for these words then we can open ourselves to the possibility that based on our readings of other scriptures we can get to some of that I would say deeper understanding of what God wants to know us to know about himself and our role in manifesting

him um so a couple comments a couple exceptions I should say similar to what we did with likeness we can see that

um Psalm 73 uses this term

image

um in a sense that's nonliteral right it wouldn't make sense to for God to despise the visual appearance of the wicked I think that's the point that we want to make with Psalm 73 is that God doesn't make moral judgments about superficial things right remember God's admonishment to Samuel he says man looks on the outward appearance but God looks on the heart so when we see God despising the image of Wicked Man in Psalm 73 it's got to be talking about something deeper than just what that Wicked Man looks like cuz a wicked in a righteous man might look awfully similar and until you start seeing Oh their behaviors their character some of these these things that God only can can see in our in our hearts um that's where I I start I think we see a range of meaning to image as well or at least the potential for it let me give one more example on image in Psalm

39 um this passage is talking about the transience of man his smallness in the sight of God his short lifetime behold you have made my days a few hand breaths my lifetime is as nothing before you surely all mankind stands as a mere

breath surely man goes about as a

shadow so the word translated Shadow is the same as image in Genesis 1 I think Shadow is kind of interesting because although Shadow is not a physical image a shadow still represents a greater object it it has the resemblance the outline the pattern of something that's casting the shadow right so that's kind of interesting God casting the Shadow and and M man is just the kind of the outline of what God's

casting

um so that that that kind of shows again that there can be a little more depth to the

term

all right

um I wanted to share a few

quotes uh from our

community

um but I think hopefully what I've established just here we got about 10 more minutes so we can get into the next thing just a little bit but the idea is to have established hey image and likeness yes you know they don't really mean you don't have to do a whole strong dictionary search to find out they mean image and likeness they mean resemblance they mean physical appearance in the primary sense but we've looked at enough exceptions to show hey these words can mean more than just that um but they are similar terms they are kind of describing a similar thing so the next question I came up with is essentially are they interchangeable um so I I looked at Harry Whitaker's book on Genesis and he didn't seem to see too much difference in the meaning of these words um to quote Harry he says it's it's difficult to be sure just what the difference in meaning is to be understood between the words image and likeness they seem to be used interchangeably in fact um although God said let us make man in our image after our likess he doesn't use a conjunction right he doesn't say let's make man in our image and let's make man in our likeness it's in our image comma after our likeness right it's as if he's just restating what he just said um it's worth noting that that repetition for emphasis is is very common um in Hebrew literature um you know it can be repetition can be for emphasis for variety for rhythm um I just have Psalm 59 here as an example of David finding four different ways to say God please help me

um so when God says L make man after our image that could just mean the same thing as after our likeness um image and likeness don't have to be referring to do different things

um and and it's actually kind of interesting because if you look at the very next verse it says God created Man In His Image in the image of God he created him male and female so when God actually goes to create so verse 26 is planning let us do this verse 27 is exec ution it happens so when it happens it just talks about being man being made in God's

image now interestingly if you go to Genesis chapter 5 that's where Adam and Eve have Seth right Seth is sort of there to replace Abel and says that uh Seth was in Adam's

likeness and it connects it with man being created in God's likeness but it doesn't talk about the image it just talks about man being created after the likeness of God so in 127 it says God was man was made in God's image later it says man was made with in God's likeness do they mean the same thing is image equivalent to likeness that's the question that that I was kind of grappling with here

um and I'm sorry I I realize I I could get a little pedantic about these things but I I kind of I want to understand what these these words mean before kind of coming up with my own thoughts about things so this is sort of framing out the problem a little bit I figured hey I got a got a couple weeks to get into this so let let's start with the

basics

um so hopefully uh this this is all making sense

um the Wikipedia article I know Wikipedia right on image of God it's actually pretty good um there's a lot of useful information there and ref uh citations that led me to other places and uh other references on on the topic it had a section entitled image vers

likeness and that section uh is suggesting that the current scholarship is kind of leaning towards seeing terms as being interchangeable um whereas the medieval distinction between image and likeness of God has largely been abandoned by modern interpreters according to C John Collins uh since about the time of the Reformation Scholars have recognized the image and likeness

distinction doesn't doesn't suit the text itself so that kind of goes back to what I was saying about there not being a conjunction about it just saying man was made in God's image and then later man was made in likeness uh doesn't seem to be pointing to different aspects of God that have been established in them but I will say that our communities the Christadelphian communities exposers don't seem to be in total agreement with that um although the quote I had just shared from Brother Whitaker seem to initially suggest he thought the views were interchangeable he goes on to State uh that there may be a distinction between image and likeness

um he says although this distinction is not too clear in the Hebrew text the intention in the New Testament Illusions is not to be mistaken right so in our image would appear to refer to the physical resemblance after our likeness to imply spiritual growth into a spiritual imitation of the Divine

character um so brother Whitaker is suggesting there's some individual significance of each of these terms um but but he does acknowledge that we would have to go to the New Testament or look at how they're used elsewhere um which is something I tried to do and and couldn't really find for

myself um I do think that Harry Whitaker was influenced by John Thomas who wrote that in form and capacity man was made like to the angels but in nature inferior to them um now now John Thomas's his priority here was to show that man did that the statement about Adam being made in God's image and likeness was not suggesting that man had the Divine or sorry that Adam had the divine nature at this time he's saying hey image and likeness are talking about these other things form and capacity but not nature uh he goes on to say the resemblance therefore of Adam to the Elohim as their image was of bodily form not of intellectual and moral attainment while image has reference to form or shape likeness has regard to mental Constitution or

capacity um and then to support the definition of image he talks about the angels that appear to Abraham um and they appear as men right so the thought is okay because the angels look like men on a a physical level that's what that term image is intended to mean um and they said you know he's making the distinction between the image as the physical and the likeness as being that capacity for spiritual growth and development intellectual attainment all the other things that make human beings uh unique from the Animal Kingdom um so I wanted to provide those quotes there just because they gave us a flavor of hey what what do our um expositors in the chiselin community have to say what is uh the view of kind of scholarship at large um in all of this I I kind of feel like brother Brian uh during during his Wednesday night class he said something about you this is walking on Holy Ground um and I think this is a significant topic I I want to get it right I don't want to be too dogmatic because I'm learning myself um there's no space for me to be super assertive about this um at this point so I'm trying to present the information I'm hoping that we can kind of get sort of a well-rounded comprehensive idea of what information is available to us about these concepts of image and likeness um and hopefully we're going to see that yes there is a deeper meaning it means more than just what does man look like know that man looks kind of like an angel um you know we we can get into sort of what the resurrected Christ was like what his spiritual body was like and and we know that there was some form or resemblance on a physical level right he still Beed the marks of his crucifixion the spear in his side he says Thomas put your hand here um you know that's that's fascinating to me and yet he's able to enter locked rooms and he's able to you know do things that normal human bodies can't do he's able to ascend to the father he sits in his presence um so this this study has really opened my eyes to all kinds of different really core doctrines um you know I think this question about you know did man lose the image and likeness or we can say image or likeness if we don't agree that they're interchangeable did was one or both of those lost when he fell when he sinned when he was cast out of the garden um that has a lot of bearing on kind of our views of um you know human nature and um kind of the implications of the fall and our Redemption and obviously we're going to get to the New Testament where it says that that Jesus was the expressed image of God in Hebrews 1:3 so there's really a wealth of of of things we can look into steming off of this topic

Transcript

all right so if you'll remember from a couple weeks back we had opened up in Genesis chapter 1 and we're looking at verse 25 and

26 um uh 26 and 27 that is let us make man in our image after our likeness um let them have dominion over the fish of the sea over the fowl of the air over the cattle of the earth over every creeping thing so God created man in his own image in the image of God he created created him male and female created he them so my question was what what does this mean to be made in God's image um so a couple weeks back we looked at the the Hebrew terms for image and likeness and um just by way of summary um there were two key questions that I had really do image and likeness strictly mean just physical appearance what what God looks like right he's speaking with the angels let us make man in our image and likeness so God and the angels they have some sort of appearance perhaps and is that what's being spoken of here or is there um a range of meaning to these terms and then the second question being do they essentially mean the same thing are they referring to the same thing are they being are they terms that are used interchangeably the terms being image and likeness

um so yeah so so I I think we had reviewed a quote from John Tom is saying that image refers to the form of man what he looks like and likeness appears to his moral character how how he's like God um and so that that was brother Thomas's uh suggestion I think brother Thomas in the context in alpus Israel he's very concerned to make the point that IM neither image nor likeness mean nature right so when we talk about the divine nature that's something else altogether that's something that man uh does not have um so that seems to be his primary point but he says yeah you know the form of man he does appear like God in some sense when God comes to to Abraham on the plains of mamry there's three Angels there and they they appear just like men um that's that's John Thomas's Point um I want to look at how the prophets experiened God and also what scripture says about what God has what God looks like um so there's um this may not something that we spend a whole lot of time thinking about but there's a lot of language in Scripture that speaks of God in human terms um I'll give you a few examples and you can probably think of of many more this is just a very kind of beginner's list

um the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and the ears his ears are attentive to their cry so God has eyes he has Vision to see things he has ears ears to hear things

um the question in my mind is and that you know read survey the whole list of references there um clearly it's talking about God as if he has these body parts with functions that we know and recognize because we have ears and eyes and mouths and feet um and they all serve a purpose and then interestingly enough they these because these this purpose is so essentially tied to how we experience life the body parts that we have almost take on a metaphorical meaning right so you know the expression lend me your ear right if we were to think about that expression in very literal terms it would be absurd you know here here's my ear you know give it back when you're done um you know the mouth of the Lord has spoken Isaiah 1:20 um my heart says to you seek his face your face Lord I will seek in Psalm 27 uh here here's one the sea is his for he made it his hands formed the dry land so our hands are are used for our actions in many senses right even something that is not directly done with the hands um you know somebody might say give me a hand you know here's my hand you know no it means help me with something um so hands represent God's actions his creative works I I I think what's important to remember when we're doing this reading the Bible and we see these kinds of references to God we have to remember well God God is not a man right um but because we are men and women he speaks to us in ways that we understand he speaks in ways that are relatable um who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed I think of the expression the long arm of the law right you've heard that before right and the idea is um you know that that the law you know law enforcement agencies have a very long reach to apprehend criminals right you can flee to whatever distant part and somehow the FBI is going to find you apprehend you extradite you and judge you right all that stuff will still happen um so that does not require that law enforcement agents agencies have a a corporeal being Right This this term corporeal means like relating to to your body your flesh kind of a a physical element so a lot of the people that I was reading use that term uh to describe whether or not God was had a corporeal um being to him um so nobody would confuse the judicial system as being like a body in some sense and yet that expression is used um Exodus 31 talks about the Finger of God um we use the Expression to to point the finger at somebody which basically means to accuse them or to uh Point them out of a a crowd right it doesn't actually require pointing a finger you could just say you know that person did it without the pointing so I I I'm blabbering the point a little bit but you get the idea is because these parts of our bodies are so closely tied to our everyday experience they the body parts themselves take on a metaphorical sense which then is applied to God and that helps us understand how God thinks because I think a big takeaway here is that God very much is a personal being um he exists and he has feelings and he does things he acts in in ways that we can understand and so that's how he's described to us of course he's not like us in so many other ways and that's I I think what we need to appreciate as well any comments or questions on this I think this is kind of interesting because it it kind of takes some of the the literary understanding of the Bible right we often think okay what when the Bible's literal and what's liter literal and what's um symbolic right and I think this is a case where we're talking about we're using literary Expressions to understand God

better

when he wants us to understand it he gives us that parent child relationship oh yeah right you know like Ben as a as a new dad you probably never thought you could love someone so much as Clara right yeah and so that you know that that's usually the example he tries to to give us but his he's way up there with the love right like yeah we understand love but his love is way up there

yeah yeah I think you know the fact that he teaches us with these these lessons from everyday life shows that he cares about us he wants us to get it right he's trying to lead us to an understanding of him um in ways that are not like totally unattainable to

us yeah thanks for sharing

that

um

yeah all right so let let me pull up another quote from um our community uh brother Duncan heer wrote a really well-known book uh called Bible basics which has been used um extensively in preaching and teaching and um in this section of the book brother Duncan's really focused on on showing people that God is is a personal God that he's a God that gets us that he understands us that we can um speak to about our problems that he's not uh distant and removed and disinterested um you know obviously God God is Holy he is so much higher than us like the love that that you describing Butch it's it's so far removed from us and yet uh condescends to Men of low estate right he he meets us where we are and that's really um brother Duncan's point in this section but he says some things about um our Creation in the image of God uh he he says surely that means we can infer something about the real object of which we are but an image thus God whom we reflect is not something nebulous of which we cannot

conceive so you know I kind of get the sense that he's talking about form in the way that brother John Thomas did as as being kind of that physical representation because he goes on to quote Ezekiel 1 Ezekiel 1's pretty interesting because in this

um in this chapter he he describes seeing God he see um let me find my place here um yeah Ezekiel 1 verse 26 you know that's the vision with the caram and the wheels and the wheels and it's it's very confusing but it says above the expans over the kabam's heads there was the likeness of a throne in appearance like Sapphire and seated above the likeness of a throne was the likeness with a human appearance such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord and then in Ezekiel 10 he's referring to this Vision um these were the living creatures that I saw underneath the god of Israel by the chibar canal and I knew that they were caram you know Ezekiel 1 specifically describes as being at the kear canal so chapter 10's referring back to that Vision in chapter one and you can see that the the relation that the the you know the caram underneath uh the throne the one with the the likeness of a human appearance above the caram enthroned above the caram um you know chapter 10 makes it expit explicit that this talking about the God of Israel it says that the god of Israel had the likeness with the human appearance so that's that's really interesting right so Ezekiel in some sense was SE being god

enthroned

um and then um brother Duncan goes on to connect this with Christ teaching to render therefore unto Caesar the things that are Caesars and render to God the things that are Gods remember Jesus had held up the Daenerys he said whose image and superscription is on this coin so Caesar's image is on it so give it to him God's image is on you so give yourself to God that's Jesus's whole point so you have um there's not a lot lot of references to this idea of man being made in God's image and likeness um particularly in the Old Testament um but clearly G this is something Jesus is referencing um so so Duncan mentions that

um nevertheless I think even with Jesus doing that he he Jesus can teach spiritual lessons about physical objects so just because the physical coin is in Caesar's image doesn't mean that we are literally in the form of a physical God so you can kind of see where I'm trying to approach that I'm trying to understand well you know how am I supposed to think about God who's you know omnipotent omniscient he's um he's all powerful he knows everything he's in all places

um when scripture says When God says uh Heaven is my throne and the Earth is my foot stol am I supposed to

imagine some place up where the stars are that God is seated and he's got his feet on the earth I I don't think that's really the intent of a passage like that

um it's supposed to show that his he is in an exalted place and and and

um yeah so these are the sort of the things that I'm pondering trying to understand this

um I don't know if it's it as in to to others that God is not like a physical being or or maybe there is a variety of opinion on that does does anybody have thoughts or perspectives to

share I've always understood God as uh you know sometimes referred to as the eternal spirit is sort of being everywhere and and not being constrained to one specific location or anything like that so when we speak of God as being enthroned the idea is that he is he is reigning as a king um not that he's sitting

somewhere

yeah I think of God working you know so closely with the angels with the angels working so closely with god um like when you think of creation the Angels helped you know helped with the creation so um we also

see um writings about angels reporting back to God about what they've seen and what they've been doing or God sending them on like little missions so um when I think of God being everywhere I think he has the help of the angels to do that that's a good point that's so they're an extension of his his

presence all right so I I should kind of say at the outset here that you know this is a topic that I'm I'm learning about and and trying to understand I'm grappling with it myself so I'm not going to make a whole lot of statements about this is exactly what I think right I'm going to try to review this in somewhat of an open-minded fashion I want to look at uh what others have written about this that's why I was concerned to see what John Thomas and Duncan heaser and I think I had some Harry Whitaker in there um so if anybody wants those references I'm happy to provide them um outside of our community um I wanted to get a sense of the Jewish perspective of this topic um so I'd like share quote from A Man Called Moses U mamones who lived from 1135 to 124 um ad he was a preeminent medieval Jewish philosopher Rabbi and physician um mamones was born in Spain he later settled in Egypt where he became the leader of the Jewish community in Cairo um so he had a lot of interactions with with uh Christians certainly Jews Jews Arabs U Muslims um he was best known for his Magnus magnumopus um Guide to the perplexed uh so this was a philosophical Treatise that sought to reconcile um Jewish teachings with some of the uh Greek philosophy other intellectual traditions of his time um so you can see an ancient depiction of him um teaching sorry about that um and then more recently a Israeli shekele note with his depiction um on it I think that was from the 60s I don't know if he's still on the Shuckle note or not

um so quoting from from that that text that I mentioned the guide for the perplexed um he's very interested in this question of of man being made in God's image and likeness um and so he F he first acknowledges the objections of people who take these depictions of God's arm his eyes his ears as being very literal as God being having a form having ears eyes feet all these things so he says some have been of the opinion that by the Hebrew ZM the shape and the figure of a thing is to be understood and this explanation led men to believe in the corporeality there's that word again um corporeality of the Divine being they adhered Faithfully to this View and thought that if they were to relinquish it they would by that very act reject the truth of the Bible and further if they did not conceive God as having a body possessed of face and limbs similar to their own in appearance they would have to deny even the existence of God the sole difference which they admitted was that he excelled in greatness and Splendor and that his substance was not flesh and blood you can see there a reference to 1 Corinthians 15 flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom um but he's talking about the sort of people that that see you know um Isaiah 65 uh Heaven is my Throne the Earth is my foot stol and think literally this is talking about God being seated somewhere in the heavens

um um let's see here so he goes on to offer uh his understanding so so he acknowledges the one perspective and he offers another

um as man's distinction consists in a property which no other creature on earth possesses um namely his intellectual perception in the exercise of which he does not employ his senses nor move his hand or his foot so he's talking about something that's happening in our brain our intellectual perception that is not related to other brain functions right so the the functions you need to to to eat or to to go somewhere um he's saying that that's sort of the ordinary thing that even animals have right clearly animals are he's looking for a distinction something that sets Man Apart from every other creature of the earth and recall from two weeks ago we said you know image and likeness that man bears that was unique in creation only of humankind did God say let us make man in our image and likeness so what's the distinguishing thing about Mankind he says it it's this intellectual

perception um this perception has been compared though only apparently not in truth to the Divine perception which requires no corporeal organ um so I think again the point here is you could be to be a little bit crude you could be a paraplegic you could have be um you know have total loss of your nervous system and still have a you know a functioning bright active inner life um you don't necessarily need to have a body um or control over bodily functions to have this intellectual perception he's talking about

so on this account um in other words on account of the Divine intellect which with which man has been endowed he is said to have been made in the form and likeness of the almighty but again far be it from us that the notion of the Supreme Being is corporeal having a material form so he's very much against the idea of God having a body the way that we would conceive of of corporeal

form um so I think the point here is is is AB no chimpanzee has ever written poetry right um we're solve for x in an algebraic equation um and more significantly animals don't think about Divine things they don't have the capacity for spiritual thoughts um so his argument is that that intellectual perception the ability to conceive of God and to think of higher things um then what do I eat where do I get rest how can I escape my my enemies or predators

um that's what distinguishes man from the animals

um so yeah I I I think that criteria does meet it is something that distinguishes us from uh the rest of the animal

kingdom um I do wonder how much you know being a Jewish philosopher and observing the growth of Christianity maybe some of mamones perspectives might have been influenced by the fact that the trinitarian uh Dogma was being put for forward which says that God showed up in human form and so as as a Jew he would have been opposed to that um but the nominal reason given for this view is that um he the Jewish audience had this prohibition on graven images which is a huge part of their identity right that they were not to serve Idols um so in kind of basic terms you might have thought of this like God told us not to make graven images because he can't be represented by physical things

so that's true right God did tell them not to make graven images he is not to be represented by idols and sculptures or things for by hand and he can't be represented by I think that's why he wants us to represent him in our characters right if we say that God can be adequately represented by this statue or this carved thing I chisel

that's that's what God is right like like the uh the golden calf right this is the god that brought you out of Egypt well no it's not the god that brought you out of Egypt is is holy and righteous and true and and all these other characteristics that the calf doesn't tell you anything about and so for humankind you know this is like spoiler alert a little bit but I think the whole idea with bearing God's image and likeness is that we are supposed to be representing his character we're supposed us be manifesting God um through our words and our actions our behaviors having been influenced by the the mind of the spirit um and that really any sort of representation in physical terms right a picture of God or a it's just inadequate it's not it's not enough

um so I there's part of what he's saying here that I think kind of makes sense um

but I'll leave it to you to kind of decide where you land on on some of these questions any any questions or

comments and likeness was you know we do have that capability to worship God and to think like him like you said the animals um don't and um you know natural man will will will go on his own Instinct right you know when God is describing in Daniel uh the Nations right they're beasts right they go on their own natural feed themselves natural you know when we say ah my you know my gut tells me it's probably wrong right so we're supposed to be Godlike thinking and uh yeah that's when we uh can take in the word and de and that's the only way we're going to develop that character of God that we uh like you said that's what we're supposed to be doing that's what God wanted right

yeah I figured while we were on this topic of of uh kind does God have a bodily form and all these these questions which the more we talk about this I I think we're kind of concluding hey maybe that's a secondary issue maybe the real issue is like exhibiting God's character um and that's where our focus should be but as long as the questions open about you know does is God does he have a form does he take up space these sorts of abstract more philosophical than theological questions in some ways um you know okay so the Jews were prohibited from making images of God um but they weren't forbidden to write about him so in Ezekiel we do see that you know yeah Ezekiel Saw something right he had a vision of something and that something was supposed to be God and God is described as having a human appearance and likeness you think about the description of of God in in Daniel where uh Daniel encounters the the Ancient of Days um I think it's it describes his his his eyes are like fire and um his hair is like a like wool or something like that right so he he's seeing some depiction of of what God looks like um if they had just taken those written words and kind of translated into Like A A A visual representation it would have been like Pro it would have been violating what God had told them to do but it was okay for them to write about what God looked like so is this what really what God looks like what they're writing or was this how God appeared to them again you know the way he appears to us talking about his arm and his eyes um kind of speaking to us in a in a more of a symbolic way and are we supposed to understand something in symbol from um from the way the prophets saw God I I just want to share something kind of interesting you know as long as we're talking about uh sort of the Jewish perspective here um in in the talmud

um says I saw the Lord right so this is the I believe that the T mode is the oral Torah uh which was kind of handed down word of mouth until one day they decide hey we need to write this down we we need to written record of this or it's going to get corrupted right um so the talet is that written record which I think was like in the 3D Century or something like that after Christ um so I saw the Lord is to be understood as is taught in the world twirl all of the prophets observed their prophecies through an obscure Looking Glass um and there's a word used here which is borrowed from the Greek it's obviously in the Hebrew Torah um this obscure Looking Glass it's a special kind of word here their prophecies were given as metaphoric Visions but were not a direct perception of the matter however Moses our Master observed his prophecies through a clear Looking Glass he gained a direct and accurate perception of the

matter um so so the idea of of the Looking Glass is is a mirror it's a a reflecting glass that you can see reflection through um so is this ringing a bell for any anybody this this idea of an obscure Looking Glass and you know but Moses saw clearly is that any Echoes ringing any

bells yes that's the one that I thought of and I I didn't even I I totally found this thing in the about in in the the Tet with without starting at that point so I was like this this is ringing a bell here there's some connection it's to 1 Corinthians chapter 13 um bringing to Corinth Paul States for now we see in a mirror dimly but then face to face now I know in part then shall I know fully e even as I have been fully known and I can't help but wonder if this is something that that Paul had encountered at some point in his training as a Pharisee that he had heard this idea of the the prophets getting a glimpse of God but not not a full picture just you know some sort of a dim like you're looking through a a glass that has like my truck right now it's covered in salt you know I can't really see out of it the backup camera I was like trying to get into my spot it's like I don't think I'm going to hit anything um but we don't have the full picture right now but we do expect to at some point in the future the comment from the Torah is that Moses really had a an encounter with God that was unlike any of the other prophets that he saw God more clearly than anybody um who who followed him um so the verse I want to go to is in Deuteronomy CH 34 um and verse

10 there's not risen a prophet since in Israel like Moses and the Lord knew face to face I I think that's where when it says our master Moses observed his prophecies through a clear Looking Glass I think it's a reference to this idea from Deuteronomy 34 that really there there wasn't anybody like uh Moses with whom God spoke um I don't think this common in Deuteronomy 34 makes sense for Moses himself to have included right Moses wrote the pentiuk but the pentiuk also includes Moses's death so clearly there was some editorial additions over time so the editor in this case is making the comment that there has not risen a prophet since Moses right so Ezekiel and Daniel perhaps uh included among them

um Let me let me share another one when Aaron and Miriam oppose Moses right there there's that Rebellion God calls them out in the tent of meeting

um I'm going to start a little earlier than what's on screen uh numbers 12:5 the Lord came down in a pillar of cloud and stood at the entrance of the tent and called Aaron and Miriam they both came forward and he said hear my words if there's a prophet among you I the Lord make myself known to him in a vision I speak with him in a dream right so so I will speak to a prophet but I speak to Moses differently not so with my servant Moses he is faithful in all my house he doesn't get the vision or the dream with him I speak mouth to mouth clearly and not in riddles and he beholds the form of the Lord why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses um really interesting this this word that's translated riddles it's the same word that's translated um Enigma in First Corinthians 13 do I have on the

screen

H I think it's the word dimly in the ESV now we see in a mirror dimly um it's this in the Greek version of the Old Testament um it's it's the word that I don't speak to Moses in riddles I don't speak to him dimly uh he beholds the form of the Lord so there's another connection there

um yeah so clearly clearly Moses is um has a different experience of God than than anyone that followed

him

um

so another example of this is in Exodus 33 remember before they had the Tabernacle um they had the tent of meeting so it was a different tent um that Moses would go into um read that Moses when Moses entered the tent the pillar of cloud would descend and stand at the entrance of the tent and the Lord would speak to Moses thus the Lord used to speak to Moses face to face as a man speaks to his his

friend right so the way you speak to your friends you you can imagine your friend's face and their reactions to what you're saying and kind of the intimacy of a face-to-face conversation right in the zoom era it's like okay I I can talk to my co-workers or something on Zoom right but if they're in the same building as me like I might just go to their desk so we can have a face to face conversation because it's it's closer right it's more meaningful in some ways you just don't get that through a Less Direct form of communication and that's what God's saying about his interaction with Moses he spoke to him face to

face the kind of intriguing thing here is that in the same chapter God says you cannot see my face and live um let's pull that

up so the context almost forces you to kind of grapple with this issue what does it mean he spoke to Moses face to face and then he says later you can't see my face right if you speak to God the way that man speaks to his friend well when you speak to your friend usually you can see their face um that's a big part of like this common interaction that we have um so the the KE and delich commentary says

that what's it say Ben the words are transferred

anthropomorphically from man to God so the IDE is anthr morphos is like man changing it's applying traits that belong to mankind to other things um because human language and human thought can only conceive of the nature of the absolute Spirit according to the analogy of the human form as the inward nature of man manifests itself in his face and the sight of his back gives only an imperfect and outward view of him so Moses saw only the back and not the face of Jehovah Yahweh um so this is where God says you know you can't see my face and live I I'll show you my back and so you know the the sun here is you know even Moses with as intimate of a relationship as he had with God he wasn't seeing the fullness of God's glory he was experiencing it in part um to some extent I hope that makes sense so when it says he speaks to Moses face to face that's still an idiomatic expression because um I think it's in 1 Timothy it's says that no man can see God and live right and and God says that to Moses in this very same chapter So speaking to him face to face as a man speaks to his friend is it's still an idiom for very close communication but Moses didn't actually see the face of

God

yeah I I I agree with that that makes sense to

me any other perspectives any conflicting

opinions oh the people online want to hear you

but I think God shifts his form like he was in a cloud he showed parts of his body um you know to help men understand he has to speak to us in a way that we're going to understand or perceive him to try to interpret that to be to understand how to follow him and what he's trying to tell us and I think of when Moses um shined after he spoke with God I don't think any of the other prophets did if you think about it right we don't hear hear of them sh their faces glowing when they came down from talking to God so that's what that special relationship is too like that's how close God was to him and how he interacted with

him yeah that's that's a good connection given the face of of Moses Moses shining think about the to be that close to God like God came down that that's what that face to face was that intimate um conversation that was had it was no confusion in that conversation to trick him or he wanted he wanted everyone to understand what he wanted the people to do and how to worship him

yeah I I don't know the only other one I can think of is is Jesus on the Mount of

transfiguration

right uh let's

see all right so let's wrap this up um uh there's the reference in Timothy if you want it um whom no one has ever seen or can

see um so just to summarize right we have holy men in the Old Testament who saw representations of God in some form Ezekiel Daniel even in the book of Exodus you have Aaron and the 70 elders of Israel who go like partway up the mountain right it says that that they saw the god of Israel under his feet was a pavement of sapphire says they beheld God in in Exodus chapter 24 so in some sense you know Aaron and the elders saw saw god um but it wasn't the fullness of the experience that that Moses experienced um we didn't really get into Exodus 33 and 34 too much um where go Moses asked God to show him his glory and his ways and God says I can't show you my my face Moses asked to see his glory so his glory is actually proclaimed in Exodus 34 where he he Reveals His Name to Moses and his name is is associated with his character and so this kind of comes full circle to what we talking about the beginning where it's it's really God's character that we should be more concerned about this whole question of of God's form you know is he does he take up physical space all these things it it's sort of secondary um in in my mind anyway

um so um although Moses did have a very close relationship with God he didn't see God's face

fully um but in whatever sense that that God may be seen this is part of our hope right um we'll just have to go through these verses very quickly but we we already saw 1 Corinthians 13 that there is hope to encounter God face to face in the future um in the Beatitudes blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God um Hebrews 12 strive for peace and for Holiness without which no one will see the Lord so again character attributes that are required to to fully encounter

god um and then in Revelation God's servants will see his face and his name will be on their foreheads so in whatever sense we're supposed to understand seeing the face of God God and and maybe it is the fullness of his character and in complete Holiness and uprightness um maybe there is some physical form or or way that we will with our eyes see God um you know we do tend to look at the natural and then Elevate the spiritual but there's usually is a real natural underg guring to a lot of these lessons that we learn um so maybe there is

um a you know a less than spiritual sense that we'll encounter God

um but for now our present concern should be with God's name bearing um so when we think about bearing God's image and likeness I think the direction that we want to go with this is in the spiritual sense of of God's moral uprightness his

righteousness so um God willing next week we'll we'll take this into the New Testament where we see um we see Jesus Christ who is called the the image the complete um oh Hebrews chapter 1 verse3 uh I don't want to misquote

it but basically the sense of of Jesus being the perfect representation of his father um the way that we are to be being the brightness of his glory the express image of his person and upholding All Things by his word so Jesus as the express image the perfect representation of his father um so that's it

Transcript

um so yeah uh just in terms of let's do a little bit of followup um during the week I got an email from from Brother Bruce and Brother Bruce was commenting on the uh the supposed conflict we see in Exodus 33 where it says that um that God spoke to Moses face to face as a man speaks to his friend and then just a few verses later in the chapter it says no man can see my face and live um and I agree with Brother Bruce we really we have to resolve that that kind of conflict um so you know let me this is Bruce W yeah brother Bruce W from Southern New Hampshire I guess he was joining us last week so um here's the verses we're talking about um brother Bruce's suggestion was that this expression seeing a man face to face speaking to Moses face to face as a man speaks to his friend is really idiomatic it's a a turn of phrase in a way um and it signifies the presence of God being in God's presence not literally seeing God's face um just as an example I I've had many Zoom meetings with people at work um who I've never met in person um you know I've seen their face on zoom and then one day they're in the office I say oh it's nice to finally meet you face to face well I've seen their face before but I I've never been in their presence and so that's the suggestion is that that Moses in some sense was very intimately in the presence of God when he stood in the tent of the congregation uh the tent of meeting um but but he wasn't actually seeing any you know physical face of God the way we might imagine seeing somebody else's face um so hopefully that that helps folks with that that conflict another interesting thing to support this is that the same word translated face in verse 11 and verse uh 21 and 23 appears in between God said said my presence will go with you and I will give you rest in this case it's the word face is translated as presence so I think that gives a lot of credence to uh brother Bruce's suggestion um just wanted to share that with you all another comment I thought was interesting comes from the Robert alter translation on this this passage where God says you shall see my back but my face shall not be

seen um alter in this commentary says volumes of theology have been spun out of these enigmatic words Imagining the deity in frankly physical terms was entirely natural for the ancient monotheists this God had or at least could assume a concrete manifestation which had front and rear face and back and that face man was forbidden to see but such concreteness does not imply conceptual

navite through it the Hebrew writer suggests an idea that makes good sense from later theological perspectives that God's intrinsic nature is inaccessible and perhaps intolerable to the finite mind of man I think this is kind of what we were saying last week it's you know God revealed himself to us in his fullness we just it'd be too much for us to take in

um something of his attributes his goodness what altar calls the directional pitch of his ethical intentions the Afterglow of the effulgence of his presence can be glimpsed by humankind

um it's some pretty flowery language to describe you know something that that's too much for us but we just get a sense of of who God is and how how awesome he truly is um so I think that's kind of fascinating to think

about let's see so thank you uh Brother Bruce for for sharing that thought um I I found it quite helpful hopefully you all did as

well um so we've been looking looking at this this idea of man having been made in God's image and likeness which comes from Genesis 1: 26 um trying to understand what exactly that means for us today

um if we look at the context of Genesis the next closest direct reference to this concept is in Genesis chter 5 Adam lived 130 years and begat a son in his own likeness after his image and called his name

Seth um so the the Hebrew words for image and likeness uh used in Genesis 1.6 this is the only other verse in all of scripture where they appear together um and if you look at the context so I've got 2728 from Genesis 1 on the left I've got Genesis 5 um on the right so these are the only two PA places where image and likeness are used together and you can see there's there's a lot of similarities in in sort of the themes there's there's four points that are reiterated in Genesis 5 uh that come from Genesis 1 one that was that human was made in God's image and likeness two that two genders were given three that there was a blessing given to humankind and finally for a description of human flourishing with the instruction to be fruitful and multiply in chapter one it's now being fulfilled in chapter 5 through

Seth so Adam had a son his son had Sons and Daughters they were in Adam's image just as Adam was in God's image uh if Adam's image and likeness after the fall was any different than it had been when he was created um this this connection between verse one and verse three of Genesis chapter 5 wouldn't make sense right so verse one here reiterating that man was made in God's image that's that's bringing us back to Genesis CH 1 and so it's there to connect it with Adam's son's Seth and the fact this image and likeness of God was being passed on to to Adam's descendants so the the thought here is that man always had a mandate from God to image God's characteristics right we talked about you know this is more than just God's appearance you know the human form the body the head the the hand of God you know the you know the eyes of the of God this is this is actually God's characteristics to take it to a higher spiritual plane so the idea is that through

man God's image and likeness would be propagated throughout his creation and so now this is happening through Seth right the seed of the woman who is you know essentially replacing Abel who was murdered by his

brother so hopefully that makes sense any questions or comments on that so this is one of only three places in the Old Testament where I can see this idea of image and likeness being directly um referred back

to

yes the idea of um you know seeing God face to face that you were bringing out there I like your your comments there in Isaiah chapter 63 it refers back to uh the children of Israel in the wilderness and it you mention the presence there it says in verse 9 in all their Affliction he was afflicted in the angel of his presence and so there's this tie in there to what I've heard commentary on before you know we have Michael the Archangel there's also an angel named Yahweh right so um the angel of his presence saved them in his love and in his pity he redeemed them and he bear them and carried them all the days of old and so it would have been this idea that rather than seeing the face of God it was the angel of his presence that he would have seen at that time and that would have been not the full glory of God but why Moses's face would have shined and it would have been you know that likeness in the angel of his presence so that's another uh just something to think about there yeah I think when when the three men come to Abraham on the plains of Mamay right and two of them go on to Sodom and and one of them sticks behind and speaks and that one that stays behind is is called Yahweh right so you know Yahweh appears as a man it makes sense that that's an angel representing the name of God uh to Abram I think that's kind of in alignment with your the idea of the angel of God's presence same with the uh the captain of the Lord's host and Joshua um you know who who who are you on neither neither um I I believe that the angel there uh who we presume to be an angel is also called Yahweh so that's an interesting thought thanks

Jason um yeah so let's see here so the the question I was kind of muddling over was um you know is there some sense in which the image of God was depleted after the fall um so let's take a look at that th this is a quot from Brother John Thomas and elpus Israel ad's mental capacity enabled him to comprehend and receive spiritual ideas which moved him to veneration hope conscientiousness the expression of his view views affections and so forth Seth was in the likeness as well as in the image of Adam and in the same sense they were both after the likeness of the Elohim right so this is Brother John Thomas's comment on Genesis 5 uh

um you

know brother Thomas is connecting Seth image and likeness back to God through his father Adam um you know in the Book of Genesis 17 times we have the expression that every living creature uh procreated after its own kind right um 17 times we we see that you know you know the the The Offspring of each type of animal in the animal kingdom look looks or has some image and likeness you know after its own kind so man is after the Divine kind in a sense and so for Seth to you know represent the image and likeness of his father Who Bore the image and likeness of God it's kind of passing on that likeness that's the sense that I got here um and and brother Thomas seems to agree with that um that they were both at the likess of Elohim you know but brother Thomas goes on to say this though Adam was made in the image and after the likeness of the Holy ones the simil has been so greatly marred that his posterity present but a faint representation of either I have to admit I was a little taken aback by by reading this um you know so many others of the kind of the judeo-christian worldview have used man's Creation in God's image uh as the fundamental basis for the sanctity of human life basic human dignity Harmony between all types of mankind that there's this essential thing that all human beings have that comes from God that sets them apart from the Animal Kingdom and if you you look at Genesis 1:26 and 27 the let us make man after our image and likeness and God created man after his image those two phrases in between it is sandwiched this mandate that mankind have dominion over God's creation um so the idea of of man's Dominion his place uh in Authority um elevated above the the animal kingdom and the rest of creation really is tied to this this image bearing quality in some

respect um yeah so so to hear you know that that this Authority was was taken away yes we of course we affirm that um you know after the fall you know there was a change in the way that things existed in in creation um and and for brother prise this also means that the the image and likeness was was reduced to a very great extent so you know I I'm not taking any kind of position here um I I I just wanted to highlight that there's another way that this has been seen um you know in popular culture this this idea that there is something uh from God in mankind you know it's the basis for this book that kind of got me into the study made by Design in God's image our self-esteem ultim Ely rests in the belief that each one of us is made in the image and likeness of God

um uh another one um from Martin Luther King the image of God is universally shared in equal portions by all men uh he wrote this just a year before his death his assassination every human being has etched in his personality the indelible stamp of the Creator the worth of an individual does not lie in the measure of his intellect his racial origin or his social position human worth lies in relatedness to God an individual has value because he has value to God

um so you know I I I think we can talk about the extent to which mankind imagees God you know if I don't think any of these statements are incompatible with the sense that some of that image and likeness was lost in accordance with the fall the point here really is that this is the common thing that all men and women have

um and you know whether or not it's to the extent that it exists in the garden I think probably not I Think Jesus all the old I'm sorry New Testament teaching about Jesus Christ shows us that there that he was the one who perfectly represented his father and that mankind today just simply doesn't do it but in mankind is the latent capacity to do such the the spiritual the the ability to receive spiritual things the the higher thought the decision-making process um the kind of the independent will that God has given to each of us um and the responsibility that we have um the animals kingdom does not have responsibility to one another the way that humankind does so just a a few kind of perspectives on this idea to mull over any any comments or questions yeah a couple I think brother Chris first and then brother

Steve

uh before we move too far from the subject of uh Seth and the uh perhaps to help us distinguish between likeness and image that there there could be two different points being made there uh Seth being in the line of seed of woman uh and the sons of God ultimately uh and connecting that with Abel and it's I think if we get to Abel's offering and the fact that it was done in spirit and Truth which was a representation and reflection of God's purpose and plan might give us some inkling as the distinction between likeness and image so that all man may be in his likeness but not all worship worshiping in His image of of what is true uh so perhaps that is giving us that that link of Seth uh versus Cain's line where it's not saying that Cain is in the image of God uh will give us some you know some idea as to what image is more about versus just

likeness thanks brother

Chris I think the um the thing that came to my mind Ben was um you had brought us to Genesis 5 where it talks about uh Adam having lived 130 years he had a son in his own likeness and you had also talked about uh the fall and I think that um when I think of the image and I think of the Fall Adam and Eve were given a

choice uh the choice was to obey Godly thinking or to obey serpent-like

thinking and I think um each one of us has that same Choice whose image will we bear we will will we bear the image of God in our in our interactions with other humans or will we be bearing the image of the serpent and in um the next chapter Genesis chapter 6 I I get a sense of that um Genesis chapter 6 begins and it says when man began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born born to them and and what I want to just bring out this idea that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful and I think the idea that I have in reading that is that you've got two classes of humans there those that are bearing the image of God the sons of God and you've got the other class which is the daughters of men um which are bearing the image of the serpent so I think that uh my takeaway is that we have the propensity to sin we have the propensity to follow the image of Serpent of The Serpent and uh do you know to think serpent thoughts and our desire is to do the opposite uh to to Bear God's image in all our interactions as Jesus did yeah that's so so taking it from something that's a a design characteristic something that's uh a choice um to Bear God's image or or or not to Bear the image of the serpent I guess um yeah I you know I I I think there's got to be something fundamental here because God created man you know man didn't choose to be in God's image originally um Seth when s Seth was born you know I'm sure in some way he looked like his father um you know as he developed and grew maybe he took on some of his father's characteristics things like that some of those things um are not chosen but when you take it to the higher spiritual plane and say well we have we do have a choice god-given choice to represent him right that's that's what Seth ultimately did choose that's what Cain ultimately did not choose um that's what Jesus chose um that that makes a lot of sense to me

any other questions or

comments along that same line you know what Seth did inherit from his father was that propensity to sin certainly right I mean I think that was the IM that was part of what he inherited certainly

yeah

um but that's Steve would you agree that that's probably not what you know when it says that Seth was well I think that's an interesting question right um you know if if verse three of Genesis 5 stood on his own and said that he fathered you know Adam fathered the son in his likeness and His Image it would be clear yes this this is the Fallen image that that Seth is inheriting but because it's in the context of Genesis 5:1 it seems to be passing along this image of God that was originally in Adam that then has passed on

you know I I don't really have the answer here I think we need to look at this from a larger frame we have to acknowledge you know scripture does teach that man is fall and that he has the propensity sin and how does that concept tie in with this image bearing quality that was passed from God to Adam and Adam to Seth um you know in in brother John Thomas's terms it was it was a very greatly marred image that was passed along um it was not the perfect Perfect Image in which God had designed mankind um so I I think that that makes a lot of sense I think there is some sense in which man has some innate image bearing quality it's I would call it a latent capacity it's the potential um you know and certainly when man behaves like the animals he's disregarding that potential for development um and he's not Imaging God in the fullness in which he was designed to do so brother you have another

one well again to just to try and help the distinguish the idea of image between the animal kingdom and the human capacity uh no greater love hath any man than to lay down his life for his brother try to teach an animal to do that okay uh it's just not in them to have that capacity to uh to

self-sacrifice so I I think that's the capacity within man that he can love like God he can he has that capacity to imagine that and to try to pursue it and it makes him different uh than the animal

kingdom all right so part of my Approach is when I do a study like this is just to to see what others have said um you know whether or not I agree you know I I still want to know what sort of thoughts have been shared on the subject uh just to kind of Orient myself to get some perspective this is a you know these are deep Waters people have been discussing what exactly this means for a long time and the fact of the matter is you got you need to look at all scripture but there aren't a lot of texts that speak directly to this idea of man Imaging and bearing God's image and likeness in the Old Testament I think when we get to the New Testament we see Jesus as the expressed image of God

sorry keep losing this um and it becomes a little more clear so we we will get to those those those passages in the New Testament um but I wanted to just do a quick historical review I'm not going to get into the habit of of quoting Catholic theologians but just for

backgrounds um Augustine believed that man was created in the image and likeness and he connected image and likeness with having the power of reason and understand standing um right so this is not the most exalted sense in which man can be said to Bear God's image and likeness but he does connect it with um the man being distinguished from all irrational creatures won't spend a lot of time on this um Thomas aquinus um you know a little more complex a little more Nuance said we can image God in three ways initially in that man possesses a natural aptitude for understanding and loving God uh which is Comm common to all men so he said this is something that's that's General um and clearly we've seen that's not always developed in mankind so ainus said that secondly in as much as Man actually and habitually knows and loves God though imperfectly so this is man kind that is enlightened and and is moving towards God becoming a moving towards Christ and his Perfect Image bearing quality and then finally in as much as man knows and loves God perfectly and this image consists in the like of Glory so in in this Theologian mind the idea was that there's some kind of base level in which Man was created in God's image and likeness but this needs to be developed to higher levels of understanding both in the present in the lives of a disciple and then in the future in the in the uh life of a glorified Saint so we'll just leave it at that um Luther had a very different kind of view of things

um Luther said since this image of God has been lost by sin whereas Thomas says so greatly marred Luther says completely lost we can never fully attain to the knowledge of what it was memory mind and will we do most certainly possess right so remember that for Augustine and aquinus that was sort of the lowest level of the latter um sort of that capacity man has for image bearing

um we we do most certainly possess those things but they are wholly corrupt most miserably weakened nay that I can speak with no greater plainness they are utterly leprous and unclean um so you know as part of the Reformation you the the Reformation um Protestants made a big deal out of man's total depravity they called it basically man brings nothing to the table whatsoever uh the process of that salvation completely belongs to God I think for us we see this as more of a partnership where where yes absolutely God Saves Us by his grace but we have a role in that salvation we we submit to it we um we change our behaviors as a result of our calling

um uh the the Reformation guys you know basically they wanted to put man as low as low so that there could be nothing said that man is involved in his own salvation um so I think it was important for Martin Luther to say you know this image of God is completely lost uh we probably find ourselves our theological position somewhat in in the middle of the uh the Catholic and the Protestant

theologians uh don't need to spend a lot of time on that

um let's see I did want to talk a little bit about this idea of

um

dehumanization so you know regardless of what we think about the image of God in man today whether we believe it was completely lost whether we believe that it was marred um you know so that was it was taken away um we do have to acknowledge that there is some sense in which man as an image bear is set above the animals

um whenever this has been denied throughout history it's led to disastrous

consequences um during the Holocaust the Nazi es referred to the Jews as

rats um in the 1990s in Rwanda the hutus called the tootsies

cockroaches the serbs referred to the bosnians as aliens um and Indigenous people today are still sometimes referred to as Savages now when you take away that quality of man that sets him above the animals uh there's there's nothing wrong with then Exterminating that life

um so let me just

share uh this this quote um from a Nazi describes Jews to bacteria that cause

syphilis so are the Jews carriers of criminality the Jew is the true opposite to a human being the depraved member of subra

mixing so comparing Jews to bacteria describing Jews as sub racial the opposite of human makes it very easy to just justify killing them um this scholar wrote we feel free to swat a fly or eat a carrot because it's only a fly it's only a carrot therefore its life doesn't matter and Jews could be condemned to the furnaces of trinka because they were after all only Jews

um Leon mugera part of rwanda's then ruling Hutu party called the minority Tootsie population cockroaches um you know he said they should go back to Ethiopia which which was their historical Homeland um and within 2 years of of making the statement 800,000 of the rwandans mostly tootsies died in in a brutal genocide 800,000 people died um if you start to think of your fellow man as a cockroach you know his life doesn't have a lot of value um and so I mention this because there's a passage that I mentioned there's only three references to bearing image and likeness of of God in the old Testament and one of them is in Genesis chter 9 this is the last one so we have Genesis 1: 26 we have Genesis 5 vers 1 through3 and now we have Genesis 9 uh this is After the

flood let me see here am I in the right

place okay so the flood waters have Abad the ark has come to rest on now errat in Genesis 9:1 God reiterates the command to be fruitful and multiply and fill the Earth so remember we saw that in Genesis 1 Genesis 5 you have you know Mankind's flourishing the propagation of humankind as the way in which God's character is being passed on and expressed throughout creation so now basically it's a start over right and it's just Noah and his family and so they have to be fruitful and multiply and fill the Earth so immediately should sort of be putting us into a frame of mind of thinking about propagating God's image throughout the Earth

so whether the image of God man was depleted or or marred by the Fall this verse shows God's original creation of Man In His Image um it remains

sufficient for the prohibition of Bloodshed so they're supposed to to fill the Earth with life and in verse six of chapter 9 whoever sheds the blood of Man by man shall his blood be shed for God made man in his own image

so there there is still some some quality of mankind that's protected from Bloodshed

um you know on the basis of how he was designed um so so that's it um all of the references to man's image bearing um bearing the likeness of God they're all found in Genesis chapter 1 Chapter 5 and chapter 9 um if anybody knows anything um elsewhere in the Old Testament I'd really be interested to know about that because I couldn't find anything there's a lot of connections to you know the prohibition on graven images which I I do think is a connected Concept in terms of of man's image bearing um I I couldn't find anything

so I think we'll probably wrap up in just a minute um there are two other direct references in the New

Testament um James chapter 3 it's talking about the power of the tongue with it we bless our Lord and father and with the tongue we curse people who are made in the likeness of God so you know in some sense that's affirming that yes mankind is in um God's likeness and also 1 Corinthians 11 for a man ought not to cover his head since he is the image and glory of God so I we have to kind of hold these ideas in tension that yes man has fallen you know the image of God is depleted there's some sense in which we need to be elevated to perfectly represent God the way that that Jesus did

um you know we we can think about Adam in the Garden of Eden and everything was in harmony with God everything was perfect and you know until they took the forbidden fruit things were really good that's the state that we want to be elevated to we want to be better represent present ations of God um not just in physical form but in kind of the spiritual likeness so so yeah we acknowledge that but I think there's also some evidence that man continues to be in God's image in some sense and maybe this is that latent sense that requires development um but the ability that man has to receive spiritual things uh that's not like anything that the animal kingdom has and it makes man special it makes human life special

um so a few thoughts to ponder uh next week we're going to get into uh how Jesus was the express image of his father and look at some of the uh New Testament texts about this subject so any any questions or comments before we

wrap brother Chris and then brother Gordon a lot to make up

for sorry about that but just just AE

oh thank

you all of the manifestations we have

seen the burning bush the giving of the law on

SI what Jacob saw at the top of the ladder those were

angels the angel that guided the children of Israel in the wilderness bore God's

name God manifested himself through his

angels that's the point I wanted to make yeah that's

excellent thank you brother Gordon I think that's very much in line with uh the the pro the comment brother Jason made about the angel of God's presence is sometimes called Yahweh yeah thank you brother Chris so then uh just one other thing and it just drives home the importance of this uh so when we think of some of the distinct characteristics of the creation of man it brings us right to marriage that uh again the woman was taken out of the man which was very different than the creation of all the rest of the animal kingdom 2 by two and for this cause shall a man leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife

again reflecting the image of what God was going to do uh with his son and the and the

Ecclesia that's a very interesting distinction as well

yeah

Transcript

well good morning everybody pleased to be with you this morning um I will be wrapping up today this is the last class in a series um focusing on the meeting behind Genesis 1:26 uh let us make man in our image and likeness um trying to understand exactly what that meant how man was made in God's image and what sort of uh perspective lessons that can teach us about what God's doing now and what his ultimate intention is for

humankind um so just by way of Brief Review um we've had three classes so far um in the first class we looked at the terminology uh what are the meaning of the words image and likeness they're Hebrew words um where else are they used um my conclusion was that these words can be used interchange to refer to physical appearance in kind of the primary sense but that there are shades of meaning to words in Hebrew as there is in any language that they have a variety or spectrum of spectrum of meanings and that physical representation isn't the only meaning they're limited to uh I should acknowledge also that the image in likeness um some have suggested that they have specific meanings uh relative to one another as well so my conclusion was that they're interchangeable but I think there's other views on that as well

um class two we looked at uh some of these these Expressions that speak of God as if he has a physical form right so the hand of God God says talks about making his arm bear like rolling up his sleeves right making his arm bear does God really have arms does he have a face that we can see um in many passages of scripture uh he is described in these kinds of human terms um so in class 2 we looked at really the significance of these Expressions that their literary advices to help us understand God and how he acts that he is in fact a personal God he is relatable to us even though he is you know an awesome God he's vast he's Beyond human comprehension in so many other ways this is he is portrayed um kind of with these physical things these uh human anatomy if you will so the the the main objective God has in revealing himself is to present his character so hopefully the idea of image and likeness that we're supposed to be bearing um it's not just our appearance you know how I part my hair or you know you know these things that people see we know that God is so much more concerned about the inward person and character development than he is on outward

things um and then last week we looked at this idea of humankind being designed to Bear God's image and yet having fallen having a having a nature which is prone to sin we're not quite there right we have a lot of the capacity um we have the starting materials to be made in God's image but we're we're not fully realized in that design intent if that makes sense um so uh the objective this class and I think every class up until now I've been saying know wait until we get into the New Testament wait until we look at Jesus you know all of this becomes a little more clear I think when we see how scriptures speak of

Jesus um before we get there though and this will bring us there remember we spent some time in Exodus 33 talking about how Moses spoke with God fa to face as a man speaks to his friend and just a few verses later we see God say that no man can see my face and live right so how do you resolve that the suggestion was the idea of speaking some somebody face to face is to be in their presence so Moses was speaking to God in the presence of God um but he couldn't actually see his face now we do know that um in time God's presence did rub off on him he had this this glowing face the skin of Moses's face shown and they were afraid to come near him when he came down from the mount says in Exodus

34 this was of course the glory that would be passing away right this was a permanent Glory it was sort of a temporary shine that rubbed off on Moses um until it faded and then he would go back into the presence of the Lord in the tent of meeting and you know the the shine would kind of reinitiate

um so let's see now we get to the New Testament and we see the disciples making a similar request of Moses if you turn to John

14 our brother d Hill brought us here during bible class this week um John 14 and verse

6 Jesus said unto him I am the way the truth and the life no man comes to the father but by me if you had known me you would have known my father also and from henceforth you know him and have seen him

now here Philip says to

himl show us the father and it sufficeth us it's like oh we just want to see the father show us the father Philip says Jesus said how have I been so long time with you and yet you have not known me Phillip he that has seen me hath seen the father and how sayest thou then show us the father all right um so so yeah brother Dave was focusing on the way um Jesus is the way the truth is a living person I am the way the truth and life we don't have access to the father without him this is all beautiful stuff he's teaching to his disciples and then usually it's Peter that says the bonehead stuff but this time it's Philip he says you know it's it's it's all really nice but just just show us the father you like just cut to the chase show us the father and we that'll be enough for us and Jesus says that's what I've been trying to show you like I I I have been trying to show you the father that's what I'm here to do he God isn't reclining on a cloud the way that was it who did the cine Chapel that was um one of the ren Michelangelo right you know the one I'm talking about where he's like laying on the cloud and he's you know touching Adam or whatever and there all the baby angels and things um you know ridiculous that that's that's not what God looks like um you know even the way that that Daniel saw him the Ancient of Days right it describes his hair being white as wool right so this this appearance of God you know even the the Old Testament scriptural depictions of God are in some ways inadequate it's it's in the character of Jesus Christ that we most closely see who God is so let's see

here God told Moses what he's like here here's the the scripture

um you

know when when when Moses asked to see the glory of God God says you can't see my face but I'm going to show you my character merciful gracious slow to anger abounding in steadfast love and

faithfulness forgiving iniquity transgression sin not clearing the guilty you know so that that's what God shows Moses what what God's like Jesus shows human kind um all of these attributes of God but in the person so instead of telling them what God's like Jesus shows his disciples what God is

like and I I thought this from Paul was really interesting in second Corinthians for God who said let light shine out of the darkness has shine in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus

Christ so if you you can see the the reference to 2 Corinthians 3 on the left right there was Moses's face that had the shine on it that that wore off and it was terrifying to look at and it was passing away and then you have Jesus's face which has the knowledge of the glory of God so though though Moses though the Israelites could not see the face of God all of us are invited to gaze upon the face of Jesus uh uh the glory of the knowledge of God that does not pass away um that that is permanent steadfast that is is not terrifying it's it's a it's a view that we can comprehend we can understand it's it's relatable it's not terrifying um all of these are attributes of of how Jesus manifests his

father any questions or comments on that just got the mic who's got a question or comment first but brother Chris you're always good for

one

okay all right I'll just bring you to one more in the context here Hebrews 1:3 where Jesus is described as the radiance of the glory of God the exact imprint of his nature um the King James version says the express image of his person um and I I I like the exact imprint of his nature because imprint you know that to me that kind of suggests a creative process making an impression when you make an imprint um so the the Greek word for imprint is is character you might say hey that's not a Greek word that's an English word we get it from the Greek it was a Greek word first so this this word character um strong dictionary defines it as a either the tool or the person so you can think about somebody using a Graver tool is themselves a Graver right so they're using a tool to make an impression uh so by implication the word means an engraving itself the figure stamped that is an exact copy or figuratively a

representation so you know how uh you know often there's a double meaning to words right so uh a character can be like the like the letters in the alphabet right the the the a looks like this that's the character that's formed right but the double meaning is not only is it the the thing that's formed but it's the the total kind of um collection of attributes that make up a person as well right your character is what you're like um all of your personality and behaviors what people come to know of you is your character um so I just wanted to to bring up the online emology dictionary because this kind of Distinction um this double meaning of the Greek um goes back pretty far so um again talking about this word character it's from the word carax which means a pointed stake you can imagine the engraving tool like a pointed steel instrument that can be used to make marks on a clay tablet that's how you know in very ancient times they would they would communicate on tablets um like a stylus almost

um let's see most probably preek it came in helenistic times so during the the New Testament period helenistic times uh came by metaphor to mean a defining quality in individual feature so that defining quality or individual feature we might call a characteristic you know and from from then and I think it says in the 1600s it became not just an individual characteristics but collection which became our character so this is the term used when when Jesus is described as the exact imprint of God's nature he is an expression of God's character

um so again going back to that idea of this being a creative term it made me think about um the process of of of like a hardened steel like a mold or a die creating an impression on a workpiece you know I I think of like an injection molding or casting process um until very recently I was working on a a program at work uh to develop a a pen injector instrument and it had um I think just seven plastic molded components so we work with the supplier to create create tools to produce these molded parts so you could take that that fluid plastic and injection mold it into a tool and the tool would look like the part that you're trying to create right it's it's a mold or it's a casting so the plastic is molten and it just conforms to whatever you're filling the plastic into actually have a picture here of a a uh die that was used to manufacture a Lego um so this is an eight cavity tool you can see there they're they're eight positions it's a two-sided right because there's a there's a bottom and a top to every part so you can see the part on the left side there is forming the impression that's on the bottom of the Lego on the right side you can see the Legos are still in looks like five of the eight cavities so you can see all those features on the unders side of the Lego are created by the the tool on the left

um so I I just it just got me thinking about this this process that we use for all sorts of created Parts uh all kinds of manufactured goods today um and from much earlier times even um are created using a similar process and I wonder if this is the sort of thing that scripture is trying to invoke in our minds that there's sort of a

master a a master I don't want to call it a copy but sort of the the thing that all other things come from right this tool you can see the placard at the bottom 120 million Legos were manufactured using this tool and so those eight cavities they're the original ones every single piece can be traced back to this piece of equipment and it it got me thinking about you know God and how Jesus as the the firstborn of the new creation is the first part off the tool whenever we purchase a tool at work the first time you run it in the press and you shoot the hot uh plastic into it it's called first off tool right so that first piece is the first off tool piece and you look at it and you measure it and you make sure it's conforming to all the design specifications because until that time there was only ever a plan there's only ever an engineering drawing with the schematics and the measurements and uh you know it's got to be this high and this wide and you can't have any burnishes or

blemishes it was all theoretical until the first off tool which you know you think about this Jesus is the word made flesh and God's master plan to to create this this perfect human being in His image the one in in who is going to be the model for every other human being that that that follows him um you know it seems like a pretty good metaphor to me

so yeah go ahead so when you get to the uh the idea of imprint that certainly spared the idea of uh the scriptural concept of being sealed in the forehead uh and I recall uh a study on that where it was like the uh wax imprint of the king to to seal his letters okay that they would put that wax seal on a letter to authenticate that this was uh from the king so you know Revelation speaks of the Saints being sealed in the forehead that that imprint was put upon them and and that's the you know I believe the image of of Jesus Christ which uh and and the word face obviously connects us to the four faces of the showbread uh you know in the temple and of course the gospels of uh the eagle and uh the ox and The Lion and the man you know so showing those aspects of God and in manifestation so uh so oh that's great yeah no I agree

um yeah makes a lot of sense that's the we should be recognizable by that image right like it authenticates us as belonging to God

um I like that any other

comments else he Nancy good to see

you um let's see so carrying on oh I think the other thing just we're talking about this this metaphor analogy you know there's a lot of things that can go wrong in this molding process too

um there's a lot of uh defects if the plastic doesn't totally fill in the cavity you know the parts that come off if they're still hot they can warp um so there is a sense in which um even going through a process like this it's you know the first time is not always uh quite right so I I think we're all kind of continuously going through this this process so let's get into some more of the uh the scriptures here uh the next one I wanted to bring in was Colossians chapter 1 um and this is a good one to look at I've just got an excerpt here but the whole text is is really

helpful yeah so Colossians chap 1:1 15 he is the image of the invisible God the firstborn of all creation

um right off the bat I think it's pretty clear that this this passage is talking it's using creation language right um the image of God right that brings us back to Genesis 126 image and likeness the firstborn of all creation well there's an explicit reference to Creation here

um I want to share this comment from Brother John Lanbury

um let's see here so in Genesis when God God said let us make man in our image I don't think he was talking just about a single act long ago I think he was declaring his creative work through the ages when he is creating men and women to be like him God's work has always been to manifest himself in living beings to create us to be in His

image Jesus is the first man to be perfectly completed in the image of God at his resurrection the creative work of his father was finished as far as his son was concerned his son one of us but also fully in the image of God and so worthy to receive the authority of his

father so firstborn of all creation uh does not mean that Jesus's creation preceded Adam and the Animals it's not talking about the Genesis 1 creation it's talking about the new creation the continual work of transformation that God is working in mankind um so so Jesus is the the first of the new creation he's the first to be perfected in God's image

um so I think I I agree with I think this is a pretty good summary of of what scripture is trying to tell us um truly you know God did make Man In His Image way back when in Genesis 1 but since then there's been a need to perfect the image of God in man um and that's what Jesus is the firstborn of all creation it's that that new creation that perfected creation right so

um yeah let's see so if we look at the The Wider context here the image of the invisible God firstborn of all creation by all by him all things were created what does it mean that by him you know we're talking about Jesus by by Jesus all things were created people get all wound up about what this means there's all kinds of confusion um all things in heaven and on Earth visible and invisible Thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities well there in Genesis 1 there weren't any Thrones or dominions there weren't any human principalities on the earth to be created um so I think that should suggest this is talking about a future sort of of creation all things were created through him and for him so the word image here um David Levens had this series in the tidings magazine about how you're not supposed to uh say Greek words if you're not a if if you're not qualified to do so um pronounce mispronouncing Hebrew words I think probably gets to folks who actually know what the Hebrew words mean and so we're not trying to say that the the only connection here is that this this word image or

icon uh it's kind of like your the icons on your desktop right like your your computer has computer icons or little pictures of what the application is right it's a representation of something else comes from this Greek word translated image here icon it's the same word in the Greek Old Testament in Genesis 126 let us make man in our image and likeness it's image is icon so there's there's a connection there um more significantly though I think is that um Christ is the one who comes to take charge of all Thrones and dominions and Powers right so this is Jesus

exercising um the original mandate God gave to humankind have dominion over all of the

earth so when we're reading Colossians 1 this should bring us back to that creation language in Genesis and we should be thinking about how Jesus uh serves a role in fulfilling the original design intent of creation um and you know that includes bearing God's image but also includes having Dominion over the rest of the earth we talked about last week that that mankind you know the status of mankind is above the animals in some sense um that man is presently bearing God's image in some sense but not fully until Jesus Christ comes and shows us The Perfect Image and and takes dominion over all of the

earth um think about Philippians 2 talks about every knee shall bow at the name of of Jesus every tongue confess that he is Lord to the glory of God um that's not fully happened yet so in some ways know I think Christ has been perfected in his character but fulfilling this mandate to have dominion over all the Earth that that is still happening right that won't be completed until the the kingdom

age all right so we've got

that I would say also

we're talking about Imaging God yeah go ahead brother Steve yeah Ben I thought that was really helpful looking at uh Colossians 1 and 15 and 16 and and showing that you know the way you've highlighted the Thrones and dominions that this is not referring to sort of the first

creation um but this is referring to a future creation really helpful to see that highlighted that way and then particularly uh showing the Genesis 1 um comment there to the right on the slide where um you see that God's God's purpose was that uh man would have dominion over all the Earth so yeah so so if I hear what you're saying God created the Earth so that man would represent him they that they would uh that man would you know take God's character and sort of spread it over the Earth man didn't do that fully and so there's this future creation that uh Jesus comes and perfectly represents God Bears God you know the the icon of God if you will right and that the reference then to Thrones and dominions is the the future age am I am I with you that's how I understand it yeah yeah yeah yeah really helpful thanks yeah nice to nice to see it presented that

way and to go along with what Steve said

um that's why God created the nation of Israel you know they were supposed to represent be Witnesses of God to the rest of the Nations and this is part of what we'll be picking up next week uh in the classes uh a little bit of where Ben is and we're going to continue on that so you know before Jesus there was Israel and we know they also failed uh to represent God on the earth so just a little side note yeah thanks Mark good segue into your classes next

week um yeah so this this process is is underway in us the process that worked in in Jesus um putting on the new self uh on screen there Colossians 39-10 um Paul is saying that basically this status that we have now it's supposed to affect our Behavior presently right we're not supposed to be lying to one another anymore because we put off the old self old self was a liar you know the the new self does not lie it tells the truth um you you put off the old self with its practices you put on the new self which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its

creator um so I I wonder here when it you know after the image of its creator well what's Creator it's Creator what are we talking about um

sorry I gota catch up to my notes here so what is the it in its creator it's the new self so the new self has a Creator the old self um is is passing away we're putting on the new self you know I I wonder if you know it's Jesus himself that is the the new creator of of the new creation when it it says by in the Colossians chapter 1 what we just looked at it says by him all things were created so it's saying that Jesus is has a role in creation Now we reject the idea that there was a pre-existent Christ or anything like that back in the Genesis 1 period that helped god with the original creation now we're thinking in spiritual terms about this new creative work that that God is doing through Christ and Jesus appears to have a role in that in creating the new putting on the new self um it it's just a thought here but you have to ask who is the creator what did God I'm sorry what did Jesus create Colossians

1:15 um regardless what we're talking about is you know to get back to the image and likeness thing we're not talking about physical representations of God we're not even talking about the divine nature um we're talking about really practical relatable things that Jesus teaches us to do

um if we're in Colossians 3 looking at how we are being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator he keep saying put on be renewed here are the things we're supposed to put on in just a few verses later Colossians 3:12 to14 he says put on compassionate Hearts put on kindness put on humility makeness patience bearing with one another forgiving each other even as Christ forgave you and above o all these things put on love which binds everything together in Perfect

Harmony and I think sometimes our expectation is that you know we're going to have some kind of experience like Moses on Mount Si or Ezekiel having The Vision by the the canal it's going to be this otherworldly thing this thing totally outside of Human Experience um but really image bearing is about doing these kind of ordinary things that are actually extraordinary which are actually very rare in the world

um like having compassionate Hearts being kind being humble these are not things that come natural and for that reason they are extraordinary um I think we should be think looking at these sorts of characteristics that God has revealed to us through Jesus and say wow that's amazing for you know and we do see that in our community uh we have wonderful brothers and sisters sisters I can think of so many folks who have influenced myself and sister Hannah I'm sure you can as well for yourself just really extraordinary examples of of disciples who have influenced us and shown us uh the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ as it's been imprinted onto them

um so um you know Philip when he says you know just show us the father Jesus like that's what I've been doing it's what do you expect to see um

you we we think of these awesome moments like the Transfiguration where you know God Reveals His glory in a way that's really striking to human beings but uh that's that's not what it's all about really

um so hopefully that makes sense so Colossians is is a great place to go for this um it's really tragic that you know some people go in different directions with a passage like this um but I think as we do the the Imaging study we can kind of see there is sort of a higher spiritual meaning to these things um the whole concept of the new creation is it it really is supposed to be a radical thing

um yeah so any any questions on Colossians 1 any comments on these passages before we move

on all

right let's see so the next one is is Philippians chapter

2 this is another one that's kind of hard to read without reacting to the misunderstanding um you know we're not going to be refuting the pre-existence or deity of Christ or anything like that that's that's not what we're here to talk about um but I do want to focus in on this this bit about Jesus who was in the form of God he did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped but himself by taking the form of a servant

um I couldn't find any basis for the esvs being born I think King James he was made in the likeness of man is fine uh maybe that reference to how he was born maybe not being found in human form he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death even death on a cross therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name it's the name that you just talked about that all it has dominion over the Earth essentially um this is another passage that seems to be directly referencing the Genesis account right equality with God a thing to be grasped does seem to suggest Eve grasping for the for forbidden fruit that would give them the knowledge of Good and Evil just as the Elohim had right um and they say you know you know the man is going to become like one of us

right

um so so grasping for equality um does seem to be a reference to to Adam and Eve's

Behavior

Uh so think about the things that that the devil promised to Jesus in the wilderness he said you know you can have all the kingdoms of the earth and and go and Jesus might have said well hey I'm God son you know I should I'm entitled to these things I should reach out and take them um that would be seeking to have equality with god um I I think Eve could have also rationalized hey God God Made Me In His Image God wants me to have this knowledge of of of Good and Evil you know you can e easily justify that in your mind um but unlike Adam and Eve Jesus acknowledged the likeness of men in which he was born and it was only by being the representative of mankind being found in human form that he could humble himself by being obedient to the point of death uh so that God could exalt him in due time um he he was ultimately exalted but the exaltation came from God it was not something that he grasped for himself that makes sense brother

Chris his baptism uh at which point he received the power of God without measure uh and so he wasn't born with this nature of uh being in the in the form of God this is something that took place during his life following his baptism and of course it came with the great temptation to use this power to serve self which he dealt with in the wilderness so uh I think that helps get an idea where this grasping would have taken place you know at age 30 not not at his birth as a

child okay yeah that's that's

helpful any other

comments just got a few more minutes here so I think we'll do one

more um Romans chapter 8 uh For Those whom he fornew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his son in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers Those whom he predestined he also called and Those whom he called he also Justified Those whom he justified he also

glorified so being conformed to the image of God's

son and

glorification both of those things both of those end results come from a process that begins with God's forn knowledge right he he for knows to be conformed to the image he forn knows that he may

um you know pre predestin and call and justify and ultimately glorify his people so I think this passage is is connecting confirmation to the image of Jesus right who's the perfect image of the

father that's connecting that to to

glorification um so this is definitely something that we're we're working towards it's not we're not quite there yet but I do see this as again going back to the the Lego tool right Jesus is the first one he's the firstborn among many brothers and so you know all of these parts that were made in the same image come afterwards

um so yeah so Romans 8 is definitely picking up on the on the same idea

here need to go through all

this

uh okay so to put it quite simply Jesus is the express image of God he's the pattern to follow um I've just put a collection of verses here which show that we are supposed to behave as Christ did to walk as he walked to do as he did to love as Christ loved to forgive as the Lord has forgiven us to have the mind just as Christ did um for to this you have been called because Christ also suffered for you leaving you an example so that you may follow in his steps so um yeah there's there's a lot of learned from this the study um it hasn't always been easygoing But

ultimately God had a vision for his creation right from the very beginning he had a vision for what he wanted to do with humankind that he wanted them to bear his image and likeness and um like brother Steve was saying I think this was the idea here was for the whole calling for man to be fruitful and multiply the Earth was to propagate the image of God throughout all of creation

um so that Moses doesn't have to go into the mountain and ask for God ask to see God instead we can see God in the image of Jesus Christ and hopefully those of us who are being formed in that image can represent the image of God to others as well right so so you don't have to go to this remote place to to experience God's presence you can experience the presence of God when you're with the the children of God who are bearing His Image just the way that remember how Seth is said to have be have borne Adam's image in likeness

um so God is still working in creation um um there that whole concept of God is as the clock maker maker having wound up creation and he just lets it go I don't think that's quite accurate when you see the work that Jesus is doing as the firstborn of the new creation um continuing to work transformation in the lives of Believers we do have to I would say be convinced that God is is presently working in our lives in our community in our ecclesias with our young people um in ourselves personally uh if we lose that sense of God's involvement um I I think that's that would be disastrous but but we we should see ourselves as bearing God's image to some extent and trying to progressively work to Bear it just as Jesus did um we're not going to get there perfectly in this life but that's that's the standard that we are to follow uh Jesus is the pattern so any comments or questions before we wrap

yes oh Mike's

coming um you say it's like the plan from the beginning but if man had not sinned and eaten of that tree would there have been a need for Christ or is that a totally separate

there would be no need for him to save us yeah no that's that's you know what I well that's not what happened I I can't really speculate about alternate scenarios but you know I I think that this it's it's part of the creation process God does tell us what exactly what happened on days 1- six right we have the Genesis one and two accounts but the the exact details of how it's happening were spared those we have a lot more detail about what God is working uh in humankind and how he has developed man to bear his image and likeness because it's been a process that's taken thousands and thousands of years to get where we are and it's taken Jesus Christ to to do that so in some ways we have so much more detail about the creative process of human beings I'm not saying that we're in day six right now but you know God is continuing to work and I would say that the creation some ways is still

unfolding yeah does that help at all then you know speak that I think we have evidence to Judy's question in the creation account and there are subtle things that uh if we look at are showing us this that Jesus by no means was an accident or a second thought or a corrective action uh but it was right from the very very beginning and so such things as the evening and the morning were the first day is showing us that God knew that Darkness would first come that man would reflect this in darkness before the light would come okay and that the source of this light the Sun the moon the stars does not appear until the fourth day uh which uh the creation account is kind of broken into two three-day parallel accounts uh first a doc manifestation and then the True Light will come so light out of darkness is a principle of God but that Darkness would Prevail first and and that was the need so it's to the honor praise and glory of God that he provided his only begotten son because he so loved us nothing to do with us okay but to Judy's point you know we we certainly want to say we can clearly see in the six day account it was not an accident God forew this he planned it and uh you know so the question sometimes goes to Adam's worth sin not that he simply sin but that he wouldn't take responsibility for the sin was a process that he had to come to acknowledge you know he first blamed so God knew that man that this Darkness was Laten in man and would have to come out for us so it was you know shown to us that it was not an afterthought or Jesus came to correct something that God didn't plan that he knew it was going to

happen yeah thanks for that Chris