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Location:Worcester Study Day (1985)

Topic:The Ecclesia

Title:The Old Testament Ecclesia

Speaker:Pearce, Harry

Download:19851116-1 the old testament ecclesia.mp3

Source: archive.moorestownchristadelphians.org |

Transcript

Location:Worcester Study Day (1985)

Topic:The Ecclesia

Title:The New Testament Ecclesia

Speaker:Pearce, Harry

Download:19851116-2 the new testament ecclesia.mp3

Transcript

Location:Worcester Study Day (1985)

Topic:The Ecclesia

Title:The 20th Century Ecclesia

Speaker:Pearce, Harry

Download:19851116-3 the 20th century ecclesia.mp3

Transcript

i'd like to now think of the present day think of the present day as it is affected by the two other as it is affected by the two other periods that we've considered this periods that we've considered this morning morning the pattern now set forth very clearly the pattern now set forth very clearly in the old testament in the old testament the pattern which i think can be clearly the pattern which i think can be clearly demonstrated as in the new testament the demonstrated as in the new testament the pentecostal church church of the pentecostal church church of the pentecost pentecost but now the 20th century and but now the 20th century and what about the 20th century church what about the 20th century church should should it be any different in should should it be any different in form or form or outlook from its predecessors outlook from its predecessors are things any different now to what are things any different now to what they were they were in the time of in the time of old testament times or old testament times or or the times of the new testament church or the times of the new testament church human nature any different human nature any different is there any greater proclivity for is there any greater proclivity for wanting to obey wanting to obey the words of god the words of god and to fight against the temptations of and to fight against the temptations of the world in which we live is it any the world in which we live is it any different now to what it was then different now to what it was then circumstances are different of course we circumstances are different of course we travel the shade faster travel the shade faster we we we have a shade more we have a shade more class independence than we used to have class independence than we used to have in the in the west but in the in the west but you know even if you go into the other you know even if you go into the other parts of the world places like india parts of the world places like india which we've got to know fairly well over which we've got to know fairly well over the past few years the past few years i don't know that the position is any i don't know that the position is any different than there was in the days of different than there was in the days of these are poor like persecution against these are poor like persecution against the church is still there the church is still there very difficult to get a visa to get very difficult to get a visa to get anybody in to do work there because they anybody in to do work there because they resent the christian gospel resent the christian gospel they want you to be hindu or muslim or they want you to be hindu or muslim or something something else may well be that the church is in else may well be that the church is in for some harassment in this country for some harassment in this country eventually as the anti-discrimination eventually as the anti-discrimination laws gather bite and laws gather bite and so on so on so i started by asking the question is so i started by asking the question is it any different or or should we define it any different or or should we define the present day church in terms of the the present day church in terms of the history history of mankind of mankind the things that were written before were the things that were written before were written for our admonition upon whom the written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the earth have come and ends of the earth have come and therefore therefore we are open to receive instruction we are open to receive instruction from those times well now from those times well now should the church be any different now should the church be any different now to what it was in the days of the first to what it was in the days of the first century church century church should the concept of eldership be any should the concept of eldership be any different now than it was either in the different now than it was either in the old old the old the old history times when history times when when the elders were called upon to be when the elders were called upon to be the the center around which the center around which the life of the nation pivoted life of the nation pivoted or in the days of or in the days of the pentecostal church whether the pentecostal church whether there should be anything different than there should be anything different than a directing body who would a directing body who would take upon themselves the leadership of take upon themselves the leadership of the church and show by their conduct the church and show by their conduct that they were capable of doing it that they were capable of doing it or alternatively of or alternatively of maintaining the preaching of the gospel maintaining the preaching of the gospel to to develop the kind of develop the kind of mechanisms that could be interpreted mechanisms that could be interpreted within within the rules by which the church was being the rules by which the church was being administered administered is it any different or should it be any is it any different or should it be any different now than what it was then well different now than what it was then well now now i'm here for the next 10 minutes or so i'm here for the next 10 minutes or so i'm going to say some things that i'm going to say some things that that will be different to anything that will be different to anything you've heard before and you know i don't you've heard before and you know i don't press them upon you as press them upon you as as uh fundamentally right as uh fundamentally right i bring them forward in the spirit of i bring them forward in the spirit of study study so that you can give your minds to what so that you can give your minds to what i'm going to say and decide whether i'm going to say and decide whether there is in fact any merit there is in fact any merit in continuing the same kind of in continuing the same kind of leadership in the church leadership in the church that we were encouraged to expect both that we were encouraged to expect both in the old testament and in the new in the old testament and in the new testament times testament times robert roberts for example robert roberts for example evidently thought that there should be evidently thought that there should be changes changes from the apostolic church from the apostolic church because of the because of the because the because the patterns of patterns of tradition that have come down to us in tradition that have come down to us in the christadelphian body the christadelphian body are completely different are completely different in their form and operation than they in their form and operation than they were in the days of the first century were in the days of the first century church there's very little church there's very little about our present organization which about our present organization which accords accords with the organization that we've read with the organization that we've read off off in the new testament there seems to be no distinction between the bishop and the deacon functions the bishop and the deacon functions we have a new function which we call we have a new function which we call depending on where we are whether we depending on where we are whether we call management call management managing brethren managing brethren arranging brethren arranging brethren you know call it what you like stewards you know call it what you like stewards some places call them some places call them but rarely is there any distinction but rarely is there any distinction drawn between drawn between the office of the overseer the bishop the office of the overseer the bishop and the doctrine of the deacon as the and the doctrine of the deacon as the carrier out of the of the policies laid carrier out of the of the policies laid down down it seems that brother robert's reason it seems that brother robert's reason that without the guidance of the holy that without the guidance of the holy spirit spirit endowed elders endowed elders you know you know endowed by the holy spirit endowed by the holy spirit that human motivations would become the that human motivations would become the ruling passion ruling passion it is to be realized that in the new it is to be realized that in the new testament he clears that testament he clears that spirit endowed apostles withstood each spirit endowed apostles withstood each other to the face because they were wrong we've got you know a couple of cases of we've got you know a couple of cases of that we've got the controversy between that we've got the controversy between paul and barnabas we've got the paul and barnabas we've got the contributed controversy the very hot contributed controversy the very hot controversy between paul and peter controversy between paul and peter both of whom were endowed with the holy both of whom were endowed with the holy spirit gifts they were permitted to work spirit gifts they were permitted to work miracles in the name of the holy spirit miracles in the name of the holy spirit and yet paul peter says regarding peter and yet paul peter says regarding peter i withstood him to the face because he i withstood him to the face because he was wrong was wrong is it possible to conceive the two men is it possible to conceive the two men of the holy spirit of the holy spirit they could act against each other in they could act against each other in such a hot such a hot climate as is evident in that in those climate as is evident in that in those two great men two great men men who were pillars of the church and men who were pillars of the church and who who whose um whose um you know whose motivation of you know whose motivation of selflessness and selflessness and and and devotion to the will of god were devotion to the will of god were complete complete and yet the holy spirit didn't protect and yet the holy spirit didn't protect them from being at odds with each other them from being at odds with each other odds with each other to the point where odds with each other to the point where they were calling each other they were calling each other wrong wrong being withstanding each other being withstanding each other when it came to that point of course the when it came to that point of course the the judgment on the particular matter the judgment on the particular matter between paul and peter the judgment on between paul and peter the judgment on that was not given that was not given by peter but by peter but but by james but by james on behalf of the on behalf of the the ruling group of the christian church the ruling group of the christian church as it was then established as it was then established the fact is the fact is brothers and sisters that the spirit brothers and sisters that the spirit endowment endowment were to be used as a seal of authority were to be used as a seal of authority upon the preaching of the word upon the preaching of the word and it was not for the self-development and it was not for the self-development of those who took upon themselves the of those who took upon themselves the management management or the direction of the church or the direction of the church the the qualification for the the qualification for for governing the church of the living for governing the church of the living god and acting as leaders counsellors and pastors was not the gift of the holy spirit at was not the gift of the holy spirit at all all and that's why i said this morning that and that's why i said this morning that it was excluded from the list of it was excluded from the list of qualifications for those important tasks the seal of the spirit in its charismatic form was given charismatic form was given so that a seal should be set upon the so that a seal should be set upon the preaching of the gospel and nobody could preaching of the gospel and nobody could withstand withstand the power and the force of the preaching the power and the force of the preaching of the gospel of the gospel when it was accompanied by such when it was accompanied by such wonderful things as we see recorded in wonderful things as we see recorded in the first the first in the first century in the first century um let me give you an example and um let me give you an example and of of what my researchers have brought to me i came apart across an article which was very surprising to an article which was very surprising to me me it was an article written by robert it was an article written by robert roberts roberts in the year or two immediately preceding in the year or two immediately preceding his death his death and as you know most of you will know and as you know most of you will know that at that time he was still the that at that time he was still the editor of the christadelphian magazine editor of the christadelphian magazine in england in england and was by this time the undoubted and was by this time the undoubted authority speaking on behalf of the authority speaking on behalf of the christadelphian movement in very many centers and quite rightly so robert roberts is venerated as the so robert roberts is venerated as the preserver of the of the truths which we preserver of the of the truths which we have taken into our time the truths have taken into our time the truths which make us distinct from the which make us distinct from the christian world outside christian world outside well well i'm going to quote some words from an i'm going to quote some words from an article article which robert roberts wrote which robert roberts wrote in the krista delfin magazine the year in the krista delfin magazine the year before he died before he died and this came as a great shock to me and this came as a great shock to me it's under the heading it's in the it's under the heading it's in the december 1897 ecclesial visitor which is december 1897 ecclesial visitor which is the editorial section of the the editorial section of the christodolphine magazine of those days christodolphine magazine of those days and the heading of the article is the and the heading of the article is the management of ecclesial business management of ecclesial business written by robert roberts he says written by robert roberts he says the object of collegial existence is to the object of collegial existence is to keep its members under the power of the keep its members under the power of the truth truth in its faith and practice in its faith and practice all business should be strictly all business should be strictly subordinated to this subordinated to this sometimes this position of things is sometimes this position of things is reversed and business kills spiritual reversed and business kills spiritual life life methods have a great deal to do with methods have a great deal to do with this and we also aim into that i mean if this and we also aim into that i mean if the spirit of christ is not present in the spirit of christ is not present in the deliberations of an ecclesia then the deliberations of an ecclesia then the ecclesia will get into a wilderness the ecclesia will get into a wilderness because it won't be directed according because it won't be directed according to the principles of love joy and peace to the principles of love joy and peace that christ has laid down for his church god's way of doing this in the first century was to appoint men to attend the century was to appoint men to attend the business without troubling the ecclesia business without troubling the ecclesia in the absence of the spirit's in the absence of the spirit's nomination we cannot have this privilege nomination we cannot have this privilege and uh you know i take leave to and uh you know i take leave to question that statement because i've question that statement because i've already shown i think quite clearly already shown i think quite clearly that the existence of the holy spirit that the existence of the holy spirit didn't do anything to promote unity didn't do anything to promote unity what it did was to promote profound what it did was to promote profound differences between differences between good men who sought who were given the good men who sought who were given the power in order to do power in order to do set do things which would set a seal set do things which would set a seal upon their preaching so it says it will be regarded by recognized by it will be regarded by recognized by every discerning brother and sister that every discerning brother and sister that the object of aeroclassial experience the object of aeroclassial experience is the development of the fruits of the is the development of the fruits of the spirit in love comfort peace and joy and spirit in love comfort peace and joy and the great truth that bind us together in the great truth that bind us together in god god business arrangements are wholly business arrangements are wholly secondary to this secondary to this and to be kept in strict subjection to and to be kept in strict subjection to it like the washing day or the chimney it like the washing day or the chimney sweeping at home which are very sweeping at home which are very necessary but to be kept in the necessary but to be kept in the background background let the family have the comfort of it let the family have the comfort of it without the nuisance of it if we can without the nuisance of it if we can and we'd say amen to that i mean why and we'd say amen to that i mean why allow the daily mechanisms of allow the daily mechanisms of of of life to interfere in the peace life to interfere in the peace the love and the joy and the fellowship the love and the joy and the fellowship of the children of god of the children of god and then and then it was therefore arranged by robert it was therefore arranged by robert roberts that there would be the roberts that there would be the delegation of the matters of business delegation of the matters of business into the hands of a group called into the hands of a group called arranging brethren arranging brethren and he said uh regarding that the and he said uh regarding that the proposed alteration proposed alteration um i'll go back a little further then um i'll go back a little further then the ecclesia would always have it in the ecclesia would always have it in their power to change the arranging their power to change the arranging brethren had a new election brethren had a new election if they didn't like what was doing then if they didn't like what was doing then they'd simply change them they'd simply change them the proposed alteration did not the proposed alteration did not originate with me though i helped to put originate with me though i helped to put it in that form as i remarked in a circular at that time our present system is too democratic our present system is too democratic that is the system under which under that is the system under which under which everything was divided decided by which everything was divided decided by the rank and file and where the rank and file and where in the interminable kinds of discussions in the interminable kinds of discussions that arise as we very well know in those that arise as we very well know in those situations it'd be very hard to come to situations it'd be very hard to come to a sensible decision anyway a sensible decision anyway it is more democratic than the most it is more democratic than the most democratic system of this democratic age democratic system of this democratic age we think the british government we think the british government democratic but the british government democratic but the british government does not bring its executive acts of does not bring its executive acts of parliament for sanction before they're parliament for sanction before they're valid valid in other words it's it's decided by the in other words it's it's decided by the representatives and therefore representatives and therefore robert roberts came down very firmly on robert roberts came down very firmly on the grounds of having an election from the grounds of having an election from time to time of a ranging brethren who time to time of a ranging brethren who would carry on the management of the would carry on the management of the ecclesia in lieu of having everything ecclesia in lieu of having everything submitted to the congregation submitted to the congregation for determination for determination now this is the part that that i find now this is the part that that i find extremely interesting extremely interesting our present system our present system was disapproved of by dr thomas who thought we ought to aim at a nearer conformity to the apostolic system of conformity to the apostolic system of perpetual elders with authority he was afraid that the constant appeal for the ecclesia sanction by vote would for the ecclesia sanction by vote would open the door for turbulent spirits and open the door for turbulent spirits and put in their power to interfere with put in their power to interfere with ecclesial peace ecclesial peace so it's quite clear what dr thomas's so it's quite clear what dr thomas's view of it was he disapproved of the view of it was he disapproved of the system that robert roberts had set up i heard he says robert roberts in confessing this i heard from too greater confessing this i heard from too greater confidence in human nature on the side of too great a conformity to the republican spirit of the age the republican spirit of the age experience has proved dr thomas right in experience has proved dr thomas right in this matter this matter and my own views at the beginning crude and my own views at the beginning crude and unsuitable an electoral system that reduces aeroclesia ecclesias it does in many aeroclesia ecclesias it does in many cases to cases to the level the level to a level with a political constituency to a level with a political constituency or a money club or a money club ought to be modified in harmony with the ought to be modified in harmony with the divine model of the first century so far divine model of the first century so far as we can as we can we can only hope we can only hope that there is not time enough for that there is not time enough for further experiment and that the lord of further experiment and that the lord of all will shortly with his powerful arm all will shortly with his powerful arm and end the chaos that prevails both in and end the chaos that prevails both in the world and amongst the few and the world and amongst the few and scattered bodies developed in these scattered bodies developed in these latter days by the revival of the gospel latter days by the revival of the gospel there's nearly a hundred years ago there's nearly a hundred years ago a hundred years ago since doc since a hundred years ago since doc since robert roberts confessed robert roberts confessed that he was in agreement with dr thomas that he was in agreement with dr thomas who disapproved who disapproved of the present method of occlusion of the present method of occlusion management management now i found that to be quite a shock and now i found that to be quite a shock and it it you know it destroyed for me destroyed for me that which i had always accepted without that which i had always accepted without question question on the other hand on the other hand i realized that i realized that that because we are a body that has its that because we are a body that has its traditions extending over such a long traditions extending over such a long period of time period of time that there is no way that there is no way that we could ever change the that we could ever change the christadelphian movement its traditions christadelphian movement its traditions that is as a whole that is as a whole you have had enough experience as i have you have had enough experience as i have in modern christian life in modern christian life to to to realize that the things that we to realize that the things that we operate under our traditions of life operate under our traditions of life which have become very valuable to us which have become very valuable to us as a stabilizing influence in our work as a stabilizing influence in our work for the truth for the truth be very difficult to change them i can only say that robert roberts hoped for jesus to come shortly in 1897 for jesus to come shortly in 1897 it puts a glass on his it puts a glass on his self-confessed error of judgment self-confessed error of judgment which the ecclesiastes have endured for which the ecclesiastes have endured for almost 100 years almost 100 years and which in this latter stage and which in this latter stage we would find it completely impossible we would find it completely impossible to alter john thomas's view as to the as to the as to the creation of a permanent set of as to the creation of a permanent set of eldership eldership is a very interesting concept is a very interesting concept it accords very very closely with that it accords very very closely with that that was done that was done in the days of the first century church in the days of the first century church and i've already proved i think quite and i've already proved i think quite conclusively that conclusively that that the qualifications for that kind of that the qualifications for that kind of eldership eldership did not depend upon the possession of did not depend upon the possession of the holy spirit at all the holy spirit at all it did was to put the output the it did was to put the output the eldership in the hands of those who had eldership in the hands of those who had the qualifications for it those the qualifications for it those qualifications which are laid down very qualifications which are laid down very very clearly indeed very clearly indeed the basis for the basis for management management the basis for eldership is laid down so the basis for eldership is laid down so that that none of us can possibly none of us can possibly just just agree with it agree with it we get for example the qualification we get for example the qualification like like husband of one life what's that mean we husband of one life what's that mean we might say might say well it means what it says doesn't it well it means what it says doesn't it i don't i can't define a statement i don't i can't define a statement that's as simple as that that's as simple as that why is uh why is uh an elder to be the husband of one wife an elder to be the husband of one wife well i can find several very well i can find several very satisfactory reasons for it myself satisfactory reasons for it myself i can see for example that in the i can see for example that in the pastoral work of the church pastoral work of the church there is a great need for personal there is a great need for personal problems to be able to be brought problems to be able to be brought in confidence in confidence and in anonymity in con and in anonymity in con without anybody getting to know about it in such a way that it can be dealt with and useful advice and useful advice given how can a man given how can a man receive a woman receive a woman into his home if he hasn't got a wife into his home if he hasn't got a wife how can he provide that kind of pastoral how can he provide that kind of pastoral service service if he's unable to receive a woman into if he's unable to receive a woman into his house his house and to hear her complaint her difficulty and to hear her complaint her difficulty and in comfort with his wife and her and in comfort with his wife and her find a solution to her find a guidance find a solution to her find a guidance and a a and a a and a means by which she can be restored and a means by which she can be restored to some sort of equilibrium in the lord to some sort of equilibrium in the lord the pastoracy is very much the pastoracy is very much a private thing a private thing ah but you say the apostle paul wasn't ah but you say the apostle paul wasn't married married and to that i think i would have to and to that i think i would have to answer answer and again this is a matter for each one and again this is a matter for each one of you to think about i'd have to say of you to think about i'd have to say that that the apostle paul was not that that the apostle paul was not a bishop a bishop he didn't take to himself the work of a he didn't take to himself the work of a bishop bishop paul was the apostle to the gentiles his paul was the apostle to the gentiles his calling was a very supremely important calling was a very supremely important one but when it came to managing the one but when it came to managing the affairs of the epclesia affairs of the epclesia he said to timothy and to titus go and he said to timothy and to titus go and ordain bishops in every center ordain bishops in every center so that the needs for pastoral care so that the needs for pastoral care within the wisdom of christ's counsel within the wisdom of christ's counsel it could be offered it could be offered you know you know with kindness compassion with kindness compassion friendship and above all things wisdom friendship and above all things wisdom in the ways of god by those who by their in the ways of god by those who by their application to have have accepted application to have have accepted have have qualified qualified to be able to provide that kind of to be able to provide that kind of service service so that so that [Music] [Music] i don't think we could contemplate a i don't think we could contemplate a change in structure to come change in structure to come close to the first century pattern close to the first century pattern which was and just let me recapitulate which was and just let me recapitulate it for you we had a central eldership it for you we had a central eldership board board determining overall policy for the body determining overall policy for the body there are matters which scream for there are matters which scream for policy direction not included in the policy direction not included in the statement of faith right now statement of faith right now that ought to be put there that ought to be put there except that we'd never get agreement except that we'd never get agreement in the christadelphian movement as to in the christadelphian movement as to what it should be what it should be things for example like things for example like what should be the policy of the church what should be the policy of the church regarding divorce and remarriage this regarding divorce and remarriage this scourge of modern society which scourge of modern society which threatens to destroy threatens to destroy the church of the living god the church of the living god there's no mention of it in our there's no mention of it in our statement of faith or in the ecclesial statement of faith or in the ecclesial guide guide it's a matter of policy that ought to be it's a matter of policy that ought to be determined but you know i failed to see determined but you know i failed to see any means by which for christodelphia as any means by which for christodelphia as a whole a whole one could ever find the definition of one could ever find the definition of that particular problem that particular problem we got the the doctrine of the holy we got the the doctrine of the holy spirit for example how would we set spirit for example how would we set about finding a common understanding about finding a common understanding regarding the holy spirit to build it regarding the holy spirit to build it into our statement of faith you'd never into our statement of faith you'd never get it get it there are so many differing points of there are so many differing points of view in the brotherhood regarding this view in the brotherhood regarding this doctrine doctrine that it isn't likely that for the body that it isn't likely that for the body as a whole that could ever be done as a whole that could ever be done but there is no reason might i say but there is no reason might i say at all why individual ecclesials cannot at all why individual ecclesials cannot move in the direction move in the direction of that which dr thomas favored of that which dr thomas favored having perceived the need having perceived the need all that remains is for ecclesiastic to all that remains is for ecclesiastic to have a body of eldership have a body of eldership which on the one hand have the which on the one hand have the qualifications of knowledge wisdom and qualifications of knowledge wisdom and devotion devotion and a reputation for it and a reputation for it and then to get behind them in the and then to get behind them in the manner manner of the partnership revealed in the two of the partnership revealed in the two passages that i now want to direct your passages that i now want to direct your attention to attention to the first one the first one is in hebrews 13. remember them who have the rule over you who have spoken unto you the word of god who have spoken unto you the word of god whose faith follow considering the end whose faith follow considering the end of their manner of life of their manner of life the words manner of life is the the words manner of life is the newer way of the newer way of the the archaic the archaic thing that's written in the ordinary thing that's written in the ordinary king james version jesus christ the same yesterday today and forever and forever be not carried about with various and be not carried about with various and strange doctrines for it is a good thing strange doctrines for it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace that the heart be established with grace not with foods which have not profited not with foods which have not profited them that have been occupied with them them that have been occupied with them the words seem to me to ring out of that the words seem to me to ring out of that passage remember them who have the rule over you who have the rule over you more modern way to express that just more modern way to express that just obey your leaders leaders who have obey your leaders leaders who have by their conduct and by their by their conduct and by their application by their renunciation of the application by their renunciation of the world and all of its beguilements world and all of its beguilements have determined that they will give have determined that they will give their life their life to the nourishment of the church to the nourishment of the church and having accepted them in that role and having accepted them in that role then it is quite clearly then it is quite clearly the requirement of hebrews chapter the requirement of hebrews chapter chapter 12 here chapter 12 here that that they would obey they would obey those rulers the other passage is in those rulers the other passage is in first peter five first peter chapter five and verses one to five to five the elders the elders who are among you i exhort who are among you i exhort who am also an elder who am also an elder and a witness of the sufferings of and a witness of the sufferings of christ christ and also a partaker of the glory that and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed shall be revealed feed the flock of god which is among you feed the flock of god which is among you taking the oversight of it not by taking the oversight of it not by constraint constraint but willingly but willingly not for filthy luca not for filthy luca but of a ready mind neither as being but of a ready mind neither as being lords over god's heritage but being lords over god's heritage but being examples to the flock examples to the flock and when the chief shepherd shall appear and when the chief shepherd shall appear you shall receive a crown of glory that you shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away fadeth not away in like manner ye younger in like manner ye younger submit yourselves unto the elder submit yourselves unto the elder yea all of you be subject one to another yea all of you be subject one to another and be clothed with humility for god and be clothed with humility for god resisteth the proud and giveth grace to resisteth the proud and giveth grace to the humble you know that's a very the humble you know that's a very precise statement precise statement about the attitude that should be about the attitude that should be present in the church of god present in the church of god on the one hand in hebrews there is the on the one hand in hebrews there is the requirement to obey the teacher requirement to obey the teacher by the leader by the leader obey the bishop obey the bishop by the eldership that has proved itself by the eldership that has proved itself by its demeanor and by its application by its demeanor and by its application to the word and to prayer to the word and to prayer on the other hand on the other hand there is the requirement that these who there is the requirement that these who take that to themselves take that to themselves shall not be lords over god's heritage shall not be lords over god's heritage by imposing a quick sonic by imposing a quick sonic or demanding leadership that is not in or demanding leadership that is not in conformity with the will of god but that conformity with the will of god but that they should not be lords but servants they should not be lords but servants servants who would take three times the servants who would take three times the load upon themselves load upon themselves it would ever be expected to be carried it would ever be expected to be carried by the rank and file by the rank and file and for those men and for those men i say again what i said before lunch i say again what i said before lunch it would seem to me that it is it would seem to me that it is impossible impossible that having taken up that load that that having taken up that load that those individuals could ever laid down those individuals could ever laid down i know many equations i know many equations in which the experienced leaders now in which the experienced leaders now growing older growing older have either been voted out of the have either been voted out of the arranging body arranging body to make room for younger more vigorous to make room for younger more vigorous men men who find themselves without a voice in who find themselves without a voice in the leadership the leadership and you must have that same experience and you must have that same experience because because in a an ecclesia which has enough people in a an ecclesia which has enough people to fill to fill all of the offices of the clesia which all of the offices of the clesia which and more despair inevitably get to the and more despair inevitably get to the situation where so-and-so ought to be situation where so-and-so ought to be allowed to have a go because allowed to have a go because you know it's time he had a share you know it's time he had a share and very often we come up as we do in and very often we come up as we do in our own ecclesia we come up against the our own ecclesia we come up against the problem that there's only room for seven problem that there's only room for seven according to our constitution and according to our constitution and therefore it is i somebody's got to therefore it is i somebody's got to stand down i don't see anything in the word of god about anybody standing down from the about anybody standing down from the office of eldership who have exercised office of eldership who have exercised it according to the way that it according to the way that first peter and hebrews define it first peter and hebrews define it if dr thomas's advice were followed if dr thomas's advice were followed they would still be in the body of they would still be in the body of eldership giving themselves to the word eldership giving themselves to the word of god into prayer of god into prayer as their pentecost forebears did as their pentecost forebears did then there would be then there would be an ecclesial business group an ecclesial business group you know as i get older there's anything you know as i get older there's anything more less tolerable to me more less tolerable to me sitting in a meeting arguing about the sitting in a meeting arguing about the color of the new runner that we're going color of the new runner that we're going to put down the middle of the hall to put down the middle of the hall i just hate discussions about the color i just hate discussions about the color of carpet or the color of walls of carpet or the color of walls or the strength of the globe in the or the strength of the globe in the you know or you know or any of those sort of things i have lost any of those sort of things i have lost the patience for that and it's normal i the patience for that and it's normal i suppose that at my ancient age that i would lose interest in those things things but i would still hope and i would hope but i would still hope and i would hope to carry them up for my death to carry them up for my death the vision of the fact that god has the vision of the fact that god has visited his people visited his people and to feel and to feel an extension of love and compassion to an extension of love and compassion to the brotherhood the brotherhood so that i would wish that they prospered so that i would wish that they prospered in the spirit in the spirit not caring whether they had red green or not caring whether they had red green or masourine striped carpets masourine striped carpets you see there's a difference but under you see there's a difference but under our system there is a tendency our system there is a tendency to exclude by reason of the limitation to exclude by reason of the limitation on numbers on numbers and younger men who have fire in their and younger men who have fire in their belly if i can use that word belly if i can use that word men who are anxious to prove themselves men who are anxious to prove themselves will come to the fore and they will will come to the fore and they will demand demand that they be given a say in the that they be given a say in the management management and i think that the god-given method of and i think that the god-given method of management in the ecclesia is described management in the ecclesia is described in the first in that record that i've in the first in that record that i've given you in first timothy makes good given you in first timothy makes good allowance because the only different the allowance because the only different the only real difference between the bishop only real difference between the bishop and the deacon in the list of and the deacon in the list of qualifications given qualifications given is the ability to be a teacher is the ability to be a teacher the ability to be a teacher comes with the ability to be a teacher comes with seasoned practice seasoned practice with seasoned application to the word of with seasoned application to the word of god god it may well be that amongst our group it may well be that amongst our group the younger more vigorous men the younger more vigorous men who are business trained and who can do who are business trained and who can do things far better than we old fogies can things far better than we old fogies can do do or to be given a fuller reign as or to be given a fuller reign as possible possible in the management of those aspects of in the management of those aspects of the ecclesial affairs but there must be the ecclesial affairs but there must be in the background besides the love of god the compassion which is born of age the compassion which is born of age the love which comes as a result of the love which comes as a result of one's own one's own chastening by life chastening by life that makes them an indispensable part that makes them an indispensable part of the life of the church this business group the deacons and the deaconesses who would carry out the deaconesses who would carry out the policy of the elders they were not only policy of the elders they were not only they're not owned not be only they're not owned not be only businessmen businessmen but they would satisfy the apostolic but they would satisfy the apostolic definition of fitness definition of fitness being grace of undoubted fidelity being grace of undoubted fidelity not given to wine not given to wine not greedy for money not greedy for money not in the modern sense of setting store not in the modern sense of setting store by it by it one of the afflictions of the present one of the afflictions of the present age is the setting store of money and age is the setting store of money and the working our fingers to the bone the working our fingers to the bone to make the last dollar to make the last dollar holding the mystery of the faith in pure holding the mystery of the faith in pure conscience and having first been proved conscience and having first been proved their wives being concerned and grave their wives being concerned and grave not given to gossip faithful supporting not given to gossip faithful supporting a secure domestic establishment they're a secure domestic establishment they're the qualifications even of a deacon the qualifications even of a deacon in the work of the lord in the work of the lord so paul says in this task they will so paul says in this task they will purchase to themselves a good standing purchase to themselves a good standing in the faith of jesus christ in the faith of jesus christ these will faithfully follow the these will faithfully follow the direction of the elders and the body of direction of the elders and the body of christ will be transformed christ will be transformed their appointment discipline and their appointment discipline and dismissal will be in the hands of the dismissal will be in the hands of the congregation it must be so congregation it must be so or even the bishops will sometimes fall or even the bishops will sometimes fall from grace from grace sometimes even the most unblemished sometimes even the most unblemished career in the work of the truth will career in the work of the truth will suddenly be thrown away suddenly be thrown away in some quick sonic urge of the moment in some quick sonic urge of the moment which destroys men and we've seen it which destroys men and we've seen it happen haven't we and so that the happen haven't we and so that the eventual the ultimate aim must be in the eventual the ultimate aim must be in the hands of the constituent majority hands of the constituent majority as it was as it was when when matthias was chosen matthias was chosen in favor in favor before barcelos before barcelos and so that it's got to be in the hands and so that it's got to be in the hands of the congregation but not in the of the congregation but not in the republican practice of short-term republican practice of short-term complete competitive elections such as complete competitive elections such as become the ordinary order of our of our become the ordinary order of our of our lives and the truth well you know i've lives and the truth well you know i've made a great mouthful about all that and made a great mouthful about all that and i don't want you to take it too i don't want you to take it too seriously i i firmly believe it to be so seriously i i firmly believe it to be so i don't lay it upon you as being i don't lay it upon you as being as being as being the gospel truth you have to decide that the gospel truth you have to decide that for yourself but i put it as a point of for yourself but i put it as a point of view and i put it from a point of view view and i put it from a point of view not from the ultimate particular not from the ultimate particular organization that you would adopt organization that you would adopt but i certainly put it to you in the but i certainly put it to you in the in the hope that the concept of in the hope that the concept of leadership leadership in the christian church must be elevated in the christian church must be elevated to the point to the point where those who have proved themselves where those who have proved themselves as having the qualifications of as having the qualifications of separation from the world of being apt separation from the world of being apt to teach and efficient and and to teach and efficient and and practiced in the use of the word practiced in the use of the word she'll eventually emerge as the leaders she'll eventually emerge as the leaders of the body so the body's position in of the body so the body's position in christ christ will be preserved and made secure will be preserved and made secure what we can readily agree together what we can readily agree together is that we would wish to accord is that we would wish to accord recognition of the ecclesia as a recognition of the ecclesia as a complete complete and divinely appointed body of people and divinely appointed body of people devoted to three particular things devoted to three particular things one one the preaching of the gospel the preaching of the gospel and that is a function which is not and that is a function which is not confined confined to our activities on a sunday afternoon to our activities on a sunday afternoon or a sunday night in this meeting or any or a sunday night in this meeting or any other meeting house other meeting house but but that the witnessing for the gospel might that the witnessing for the gospel might become so part of our individual become so part of our individual life in the body life in the body that no contact that we ever make that no contact that we ever make will be exempt from being witnessed to will be exempt from being witnessed to in our business life we will witness to in our business life we will witness to the truth the truth every opportunity will be taken to talk every opportunity will be taken to talk about the truth about the truth so that we are known as one of god we so that we are known as one of god we won't always be honored won't always be honored at least not by men but we'll be honored at least not by men but we'll be honored by god by god so there is firstly this need for the so there is firstly this need for the preaching of the gospel to preach the preaching of the gospel to preach the gospel you've got to know it and you've gospel you've got to know it and you've got to be sufficiently practiced to be got to be sufficiently practiced to be able to demonstrate it from the word of able to demonstrate it from the word of god secondly god secondly there is the promotion of the spiritual there is the promotion of the spiritual welfare of its members welfare of its members including the faithful maintenance of including the faithful maintenance of the two christian sacraments the two christian sacraments namely namely the remembrance of the lord in bread and the remembrance of the lord in bread and wine wine and the induction of new converts into and the induction of new converts into the number for the number for remission of sins by baptism remission of sins by baptism the two the two sacraments that are laid upon us to sacraments that are laid upon us to preserve inviolation preserve inviolation in our worship of god in our worship of god so that there will never be a question so that there will never be a question but that we will have preserved but that we will have preserved the truth as it is in christ jesus and the truth as it is in christ jesus and thirdly thirdly to provide an environment for fellowship to provide an environment for fellowship separate from the world separate from the world not contaminated by the world not contaminated by the world in which a substantial life in the in which a substantial life in the spirit can be lived spirit can be lived in which we can find joy in each other in which we can find joy in each other if we can find joy if we can find joy in each other in each other then we have a church that lives then we have a church that lives if we can't find joy in each other and if we can't find joy in each other and we move aside into other pursuits we move aside into other pursuits then we haven't esteemed our brethren we then we haven't esteemed our brethren we haven't submitted ourselves unto each haven't submitted ourselves unto each other other and to these ends and to these ends every member would seek would sink all every member would seek would sink all personal striving personal striving to the will of the ecclesia in all of to the will of the ecclesia in all of its its arrangements in all of its constitutions arrangements in all of its constitutions and appointments and appointments look at philippians if you will look at philippians if you will philippians one i don't think i'm asking anything very hard in all this you know i i really hard in all this you know i i really think it's simple all it needs think it's simple all it needs all this needs is a redirection of our all this needs is a redirection of our of our values all it means is that we of our values all it means is that we if we're on if we're going in the wrong if we're on if we're going in the wrong direction we simply turn around go in direction we simply turn around go in the right direction the right direction and find happiness and live happily and find happiness and live happily together until christ comes it's as together until christ comes it's as simple as that simple as that if we so esteem him if we can believe if we so esteem him if we can believe that god has visited his people that god has visited his people and that his residency is amongst us by and that his residency is amongst us by his spirit his spirit philippians 1 verses 1 to 6 paul and philippians 1 verses 1 to 6 paul and timothy timothy the servants of jesus christ to all the the servants of jesus christ to all the saints at christ jesus who are at saints at christ jesus who are at philippi philippi with the bishops and deacons with the bishops and deacons grace be unto you and peace from god our grace be unto you and peace from god our father and from the lord jesus christ i father and from the lord jesus christ i thank my god upon every remembrance of thank my god upon every remembrance of you always in every prayer of mine for you always in every prayer of mine for you all you all making requests with joy for your making requests with joy for your fellowship in the gospel from the first fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now day until now being confident of this very thing that being confident of this very thing that he who hath begun a good work in you he who hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of jesus will perform it until the day of jesus christ christ clara and i sat on the bank of the river clara and i sat on the bank of the river in philippi and we in philippi and we we think we might have been at the very we think we might have been at the very spot where spot where where lydia was baptized where lydia was baptized and there was the commencement of that and there was the commencement of that fellowship in philippi fellowship in philippi we thrilled to we thrilled to feel feel even at this distance of even at this distance of of age of age the motivation of the spirit of paul the motivation of the spirit of paul which took him to that place which took him to that place and where that band of faithful women and where that band of faithful women were formed were formed a place where eventually he was to be a place where eventually he was to be drummed out of the city for the hope of drummed out of the city for the hope of the gospel that he had leaving behind the gospel that he had leaving behind a group of people who realized that this a group of people who realized that this was all in life that really mattered was all in life that really mattered and and in ephesians chapter 2 in ephesians chapter 2 and these passages are not not not new and these passages are not not not new to you but you know in this context i to you but you know in this context i think they become so powerful is to be think they become so powerful is to be of the greatest possible of the greatest possible importance importance 19th verse of the second chapter of 19th verse of the second chapter of ephesians now therefore you're no more ephesians now therefore you're no more strangers and sojourners strangers and sojourners there's nothing worse than being a there's nothing worse than being a stranger and a surgeon stranger and a surgeon you find yourself in a strange pub in you find yourself in a strange pub in venice venice we haven't got a soul in the world that we haven't got a soul in the world that knows you or cares about you knows you or cares about you every morning you get up and you have every morning you get up and you have your continental breakfast and you go your continental breakfast and you go out on the town and try to see some of out on the town and try to see some of the sights of venice as we did the sights of venice as we did you can do that in a holiday period but you can do that in a holiday period but you can't make your life like that you can't make your life like that your life has got to be amongst people your life has got to be amongst people where you are in a meaningful fellowship where you are in a meaningful fellowship and what paul's talking about here is and what paul's talking about here is the most meaningful fellowship it is the most meaningful fellowship it is possible to contemplate 19 you're no more strangers than sojourners sojourners but fellow citizens with the saints and but fellow citizens with the saints and of the household of god of the household of god built upon the foundation of the built upon the foundation of the apostles and the prophets jesus christ apostles and the prophets jesus christ himself being the chief cornerstone himself being the chief cornerstone in whom all the building fitly framed in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in together groweth unto an holy temple in the lord the lord in whom ye are built together for in whom ye are built together for inhabitation of god inhabitation of god through the spirit through the spirit surely that can't mean surely that can't mean the spirit which is continually speaking the spirit which is continually speaking in tongues and healing the sick and in tongues and healing the sick and raising the dead raising the dead that's not the spirit that's being that's not the spirit that's being talked about here talked about here it's the same spirit that was to come to it's the same spirit that was to come to all all who would receive him who would receive him and where that spirit of christ should and where that spirit of christ should be so rich amongst them be so rich amongst them that whoever looked at them would see that whoever looked at them would see the face of christ the face of christ one of the things we try to do in india one of the things we try to do in india in preaching the gospel in preaching the gospel is to show the face of christ because is to show the face of christ because it's quite absurd to be preaching it's quite absurd to be preaching doctrine in a country as poor as india doctrine in a country as poor as india and not to be able to show the face of and not to be able to show the face of christ in compassion to those we speak christ in compassion to those we speak to to hence the orphanage of the baby's home hence the orphanage of the baby's home hence the attempt to show that we have hence the attempt to show that we have learned what the love of christ means learned what the love of christ means that's what the habitation of god that's what the habitation of god through the spirit is the spirit of god through the spirit is the spirit of god visiting people and bringing his grace visiting people and bringing his grace and favor to them this only happens if the life and the operation of the if the life and the operation of the ecclesia is put upon the pedestal ecclesia is put upon the pedestal which the word claims for it which the word claims for it disputes well there's going to be disputes well there's going to be disputes disputes disputes have a profound effect upon our disputes have a profound effect upon our estimation of the importance of the estimation of the importance of the church church and i quote for you here first and i quote for you here first corinthians chapter six corinthians chapter six i think there's an important principle i think there's an important principle here in the life of the modern church here in the life of the modern church which needs to be born in mind which needs to be born in mind we've seen some aberrations of it in we've seen some aberrations of it in australia recently and i'm very sad australia recently and i'm very sad about it about it dare any of you having a matter against dare any of you having a matter against another another go to law before the unjust go to law before the unjust and not before the saints and not before the saints do you not know that the saints will do you not know that the saints will judge the world and if the world shall judge the world and if the world shall be judged by you are ye unworthy to be judged by you are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters judge the smallest matters now you not that we shall judge angels now you not that we shall judge angels how much more things that pertain to how much more things that pertain to this life this life if then ye have judgments of things if then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life do ye set them pertaining to this life do ye set them to judge who are least esteemed in the to judge who are least esteemed in the church church i speak to your shame the drift of that i speak to your shame the drift of that passage is very easy to understand passage is very easy to understand it's talking about an ecclesiastical it's talking about an ecclesiastical court it means that brethren who have a court it means that brethren who have a dispute against each other would bring dispute against each other would bring their dispute before the church to be their dispute before the church to be settled that's the pedestal upon which settled that's the pedestal upon which the church would be sent the church would be sent not to not to drag each other through the courts of drag each other through the courts of the land the land in order to get a judgment by an unjust in order to get a judgment by an unjust judge judge but i fear but i fear as i know as i know in certain areas that they'd say oh well in certain areas that they'd say oh well you know there isn't anybody in that you know there isn't anybody in that particular body who'd be capable of particular body who'd be capable of judging a matter of equity between judging a matter of equity between brethren well brethren well the fault the fault are the leaders that have been put there are the leaders that have been put there and the fault is that the church has not and the fault is that the church has not been able to be elevated been able to be elevated to the level which is claimed there it to the level which is claimed there it should be we talk of course only between only of differences between the brethren because differences between the brethren because obviously an unbeliever would not submit obviously an unbeliever would not submit to ecclesial judgment to ecclesial judgment however jesus himself is quite however jesus himself is quite unequivocal unequivocal and his law is quoted and his law is quoted in verse seven in verse seven of this first corinthians six of this first corinthians six where in the seventh verse it says now where in the seventh verse it says now therefore therefore there is utterly a fault among you there is utterly a fault among you because you go to law one with another because you go to law one with another why do you not rather take wrong why do you not rather take wrong why do you not rather allow yourself to why do you not rather allow yourself to be defrauded be defrauded [Music] [Music] so lightly esteeming so lightly esteeming the wealth of this world that we're not the wealth of this world that we're not concerned with it look at two complementary passages about the practical working of the ecclesia if the practical working of the ecclesia if you will you will ephesians 4 is the first one and he gave some apostles haven't got any of those anymore haven't got any of those anymore some prophets we've got some of those some prophets we've got some of those those who are able to speak out on those who are able to speak out on behalf of the who'll be able to claim on behalf of the who'll be able to claim on behalf of the body behalf of the body some evangelists we've got those we've some evangelists we've got those we've got those who go forth into places like got those who go forth into places like india and india and take the evangel of the gospel with them take the evangel of the gospel with them some pastors well we've got some pastors well we've got people whether we so esteemed them or people whether we so esteemed them or not who act as pastors and who are able not who act as pastors and who are able to give sound to give sound advice and care and loving experience in advice and care and loving experience in the alleviation of the problems of the the alleviation of the problems of the flock flock some teachers we've got teachers we've some teachers we've got teachers we've got men who are quite mighty in the word got men who are quite mighty in the word who are able to divide for us the truth who are able to divide for us the truth and preserve for us the structure of our and preserve for us the structure of our faith faith for the perfecting of the saints for the for the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry for the edifying of work of the ministry for the edifying of the body of christ the body of christ till we all come in the unity of the till we all come in the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the son of faith and of the knowledge of the son of god unto a perfect man god unto a perfect man under the measure under the measure of the stature of the fullness of christ but we should henceforth be no more children tossed to and fro and carried children tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the about with every wind of doctrine by the slate of men slate of men and cunning craftiness by which they lie and cunning craftiness by which they lie in way to deceive but speaking the truth in way to deceive but speaking the truth in love may grow up unto him in all in love may grow up unto him in all things who is the head even christ from things who is the head even christ from whom the whole body fitly joined whom the whole body fitly joined together together and compacted by that which every joint and compacted by that which every joint supplies supplies now that which which compacts together now that which which compacts together by all the joints providing are the by all the joints providing are the outworking of the gifts that are outworking of the gifts that are available available to those who are able to give of their to those who are able to give of their time and their wisdom and their time and their wisdom and their substance substance to the working of the church to the working of the church apart from the apostles therefore who apart from the apostles therefore who having done their work of establishing having done their work of establishing the occlusal structure have now gone the the occlusal structure have now gone the remainder is still in place still remainder is still in place still available to us available to us prophets force tellers of the gospel prophets force tellers of the gospel evangelists pastors teachers for the evangelists pastors teachers for the perfecting and the edifying of the body perfecting and the edifying of the body until we all come until we all come to perfection that's the leadership to perfection that's the leadership which brings us which brings us into the perfection of the spirit into the perfection of the spirit now the passage is in romans chapter 12 romans chapter 12 and if we read there from the fourth and if we read there from the fourth verse verse for as we have many members in one body for as we have many members in one body and all members have not the same office and all members have not the same office so we being many are one body in christ so we being many are one body in christ and everyone remembers one of another and everyone remembers one of another having then gifts differing according to having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us whether the grace that is given to us whether prophecy let us prophesy according to prophecy let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith the proportion of faith or ministry or ministry let us wait on our ministering let us wait on our ministering you know what weight on our ministering you know what weight on our ministering means that means exhaust yourself in it means that means exhaust yourself in it not just take it up occasionally when not just take it up occasionally when the women takes you wait on your ministry or him that teaches on teaching teaches on teaching studies thyself to thyself approved of studies thyself to thyself approved of god god or he that exhorteth on exhortation or or he that exhorteth on exhortation or he that giveth let him do so with he that giveth let him do so with liberality liberality he that ruleth with diligence he that he that ruleth with diligence he that showeth mercy showeth mercy with cheerfulness none of those things with cheerfulness none of those things are absent from us we have incipiently are absent from us we have incipiently in the body of god throughout the world in the body of god throughout the world men who can bring all those gifts to men who can bring all those gifts to bear perhaps the hardest gift of all might be the latter one the latter one which is mercifulness which is mercifulness and cheerfulness and cheerfulness now we cannot leave this aspect without now we cannot leave this aspect without attention to first corinthians chapter attention to first corinthians chapter 12. 12. this um this um equates equates with our with our comment on ephesians 4 with one comment on ephesians 4 with one important extension of thought important extension of thought you go to first corinthians 12 you go to first corinthians 12 verse 28 to 31 verse 28 to 31 and god hath set some in the church and god hath set some in the church first apostles that's been done and has first apostles that's been done and has passed second prophets third teachers passed second prophets third teachers after that miracles after that miracles then gifts of healing then gifts of healing helps governments diversities of tongues helps governments diversities of tongues are all apostles are all prophets are are all apostles are all prophets are all teachers are all workers and all teachers are all workers and miracles have all the gifts of healing miracles have all the gifts of healing to all speak with tongues to all to all speak with tongues to all interpret interpret and and what that's saying in the 31st verse is what that's saying in the 31st verse is covet earnestly the best gifts covet earnestly the best gifts the best gifts that are available are the best gifts that are available are the ones that you ought to be seeking to the ones that you ought to be seeking to prepare yourself for that we all should prepare yourself for that we all should be speaking be speaking striving to to striving to to fit ourselves for fit ourselves for covet earnestly the best gifts covet earnestly the best gifts is it any use coveting the gift of is it any use coveting the gift of tongues tongues in these days you and i know it isn't in these days you and i know it isn't worthwhile worthwhile is it any use trying to covet the gift is it any use trying to covet the gift of healing of healing or the healing or the raising of the or the healing or the raising of the dead well dead well you know we're you know we're we're we're flying in the face of the wind if we flying in the face of the wind if we try to cover those gifts but there are try to cover those gifts but there are gifts which are equally important gifts which are equally important which can be made available to us and which can be made available to us and then there is this excellent way then there is this excellent way but what are the gifts again but what are the gifts again apostles no chance apostles no chance profits yes still open teacher profits yes still open teacher yes if you'll undertake the discipline yes if you'll undertake the discipline of learning so that you can teach of learning so that you can teach miracles miracles not now available not now available helps helps yes always open to and in short supply yes always open to and in short supply in any in any domestic domestic crystaldelphian situation crystaldelphian situation there are always vacancies for those who there are always vacancies for those who can provide helps can provide helps governments governments well i'm going to say that from my point well i'm going to say that from my point of view let's have an eldership which of view let's have an eldership which can can provide government and deacons who can provide government and deacons who can as energetic people carry out as energetic people carry out that policy tongues that policy tongues low on the list low on the list and not and not as far as we know available as far as we know available but there is a more excellent way but there is a more excellent way without the above without the above of course not without the above of course not without the above you don't have an excellent way of love you don't have an excellent way of love and neglect all the other gifts which and neglect all the other gifts which are available to us are available to us i think not because i think not because after the dissertation on love in the after the dissertation on love in the 13th chapter which which passage you 13th chapter which which passage you know very well which describes the more know very well which describes the more excellent way excellent way paul returns to the theme in the 12th paul returns to the theme in the 12th verse of the 14th chapter when he says verse of the 14th chapter when he says even so ye even so ye for as much as ye are zealous of for as much as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts seek that ye may excel spiritual gifts seek that ye may excel what for what for to the edifying to the edifying of the church of the church becomes a prime motivation becomes a prime motivation the edifying of the church the edifying of the church [Music] now as regards to unity in the ecclesia there are some very practical pieces of there are some very practical pieces of advice available advice available first there is the dictum in first there is the dictum in romans 12 and 16 romans 12 and 16 that there has to be a relationship of that there has to be a relationship of unity unity which comes only if we are persuaded of which comes only if we are persuaded of the necessity for unity the necessity for unity and without unity there is no strength and without unity there is no strength and therefore and therefore the ecclesia of god should get busy to the ecclesia of god should get busy to make sure that the make sure that the path of unity path of unity is prof pro procured as far as it is possible to do so so and then that's the dictum then there's and then that's the dictum then there's the means the means first corinthians 1 and 10 no first corinthians 1 and 10 no dissensions dissensions united in mind and in judgment how do united in mind and in judgment how do you get to that position do you think in you get to that position do you think in the modern church how do you get to a the modern church how do you get to a common mind common mind it's only going to be by some who give it's only going to be by some who give in isn't it in isn't it if each presses their point of view if each presses their point of view you'll never have agreement you'll never have agreement and so there is a grace and a love and a and so there is a grace and a love and a compassion compassion which is able to find consensus which is able to find consensus in discussion in a kindly way in discussion in a kindly way around the world and this is strongly around the world and this is strongly promoted promoted in the scripture then was the endeavor in the scripture then was the endeavor in the fourth chapter of ephesians and i in the fourth chapter of ephesians and i won't refer to it time is going won't refer to it time is going there is this there is this key word of eagerness key word of eagerness you know you know when i look at some of the classical when i look at some of the classical problems with which i have been problems with which i have been confronted confronted the only eagerness i've found is the the only eagerness i've found is the eagerness to get one's own point of view eagerness to get one's own point of view not the eagerness to find the consensus not the eagerness to find the consensus and to move on in a united form and so and to move on in a united form and so there's a strong inculcation in the new there's a strong inculcation in the new testament testament that those who are known by the name of that those who are known by the name of god might seek to find god might seek to find and endeavor and endeavor in eagerness in eagerness and then there's the posture and then there's the posture philippians 1 27 speaks about a manner philippians 1 27 speaks about a manner of life of life befitting the faith befitting the faith of the gospel of christ of the gospel of christ a manner of life a manner of life and i've talked about a manner of life i and i've talked about a manner of life i think sufficiently without having to think sufficiently without having to spell that out spell that out all of the foregoing all of the foregoing shall be administered upon the authority shall be administered upon the authority of the scripture alone of the scripture alone if we depart from that code we do not if we depart from that code we do not use them as the first test of truth we use them as the first test of truth we couldn't couldn't hear even if god shouted from heaven at hear even if god shouted from heaven at us us and he did shout and he did shout to his people to his people from horror from horror and they didn't listen so there is any use god shouting at us he's given us the prescription he's given us the prescription for love joy and peace in the christian for love joy and peace in the christian calling calling and we have to find it now and apply it and we have to find it now and apply it for ourselves for ourselves there's one other matter which needs a there's one other matter which needs a word or two word or two how shall we think of the ecclesia how shall we think of the ecclesia and there's an important principle here and there's an important principle here which i'd like you to think a little bit which i'd like you to think a little bit about in the about in the days ahead days ahead there's a body of men and women there's a body of men and women with their sins obvious and the with their sins obvious and the aberrations of their behavior controlled aberrations of their behavior controlled by collegial leadership by collegial leadership that's one concept of the church that's one concept of the church that it will be a heterogeneous group of that it will be a heterogeneous group of people who are controlled people who are controlled you know by a heavy weight of the hand you know by a heavy weight of the hand of management upon them of management upon them or or as a holy enclave as a holy enclave in which no revealed irregularity of in which no revealed irregularity of behavior is permitted behavior is permitted now let me illustrate what i mean by now let me illustrate what i mean by this this when the when the church was first established in its church was first established in its on the day of pentecost it was an ideal on the day of pentecost it was an ideal church they had all things common there church they had all things common there was a great was a great joy in the newly created church joy in the newly created church but as time went on but as time went on the church became subject to the world the church became subject to the world around it and suffered very great around it and suffered very great persecution persecution also the church of rome which was at also the church of rome which was at this time being established also was this time being established also was suffering its reverses because the roman suffering its reverses because the roman empire couldn't make up its mind whether empire couldn't make up its mind whether to adopt the christian faith or whether to adopt the christian faith or whether to go back to to go back to worshiping idols worshiping idols and so that both the true church and the and so that both the true church and the incipient roman catholic church had incipient roman catholic church had exactly the same problems and the exactly the same problems and the characters involved were characters involved were in the case of in the case of in the case of the roman catholic church in the case of the roman catholic church the the main character was augustine the the main character was augustine augustine was the bishop of hippo augustine was the bishop of hippo which was a town in north africa which was a town in north africa and he was trying desperately to and he was trying desperately to establish the hierarchy of the church establish the hierarchy of the church with himself of course as the director with himself of course as the director hoping that he might have become the hoping that he might have become the pope might have become the principal pope might have become the principal executive of the church executive of the church as he would wish in succession to peter as he would wish in succession to peter so that was the roman catholic side on so that was the roman catholic side on the other side there were the donatists the other side there were the donatists and you would have heard of the damages and you would have heard of the damages who were the primitive church fathers who were the primitive church fathers who were forced to flee to north africa who were forced to flee to north africa to get away from the persecutions both to get away from the persecutions both of the jews and also of the romans for of the jews and also of the romans for the true christian faith the true christian faith and they also were in north africa and and they also were in north africa and there was a conflict therefore between there was a conflict therefore between augustine and the donatists augustine and the donatists and there was this and there was this difference of approach difference of approach as to what the church ought to be as to what the church ought to be thought of as being thought of as being augustine said we are hungry for souls augustine said we are hungry for souls come in warts and all come in warts and all and we will control and we will control what you do by a system of penances what you do by a system of penances and we'll and we'll you know we'll eventually consign you to you know we'll eventually consign you to a place of limbo and there will keep you a place of limbo and there will keep you there until your parent your there until your parent your relatives have paid sufficient to get relatives have paid sufficient to get you out of there and into heaven they you out of there and into heaven they didn't care what people did so long as didn't care what people did so long as what they did was come was to come what they did was come was to come within the authority of the priesthood within the authority of the priesthood of the church of the church now that's one concept and it's still now that's one concept and it's still the concept of the roman catholic church the concept of the roman catholic church roman catholic church make no call upon roman catholic church make no call upon righteousness righteousness but they do call upon you to submit to but they do call upon you to submit to the authority of the church the authority of the church so that any wrongdoing can prosper so that any wrongdoing can prosper amongst its members so long as they come amongst its members so long as they come every sunday with their every sunday with their confessional now as against that the confessional now as against that the donatists held a different view their donatists held a different view their view was view was that if there was an obvious sin it that if there was an obvious sin it would have to be either expiated by would have to be either expiated by by repentance by repentance or else the church would have to or else the church would have to withdraw withdraw from the wrongdoer from the wrongdoer and it's that tradition that has come and it's that tradition that has come down to us and so that when we begin to reason the question of what the attitude of the the question of what the attitude of the church should be church should be to those unrepented sins to those unrepented sins we have to make a judgment which is we have to make a judgment which is based upon two things based upon two things one is what is good for the people the one is what is good for the people the sinner sinner and the scripture says and the scripture says hand over to satan to be corrected have hand over to satan to be corrected have that sort of approach that sort of approach but secondly there is the desire but secondly there is the desire in the hearts and minds of the ecclesia in the hearts and minds of the ecclesia to preserve in violet to preserve in violet the impeccable position which the church the impeccable position which the church has as the body of christ upon the earth has as the body of christ upon the earth preserved in the face of any attempt to preserved in the face of any attempt to lower its standards lower its standards and i think that the management of the and i think that the management of the 20th century church 20th century church if it had that as its guiding light if it had that as its guiding light and if it preserved its position by on and if it preserved its position by on the one hand the exercise of mercy to the one hand the exercise of mercy to the sinner the sinner but on the other hand but on the other hand preserving the standards preserving the standards of the church of the church so that christ could continue to be the so that christ could continue to be the center of its activities and that men center of its activities and that men might come to perfection through it might come to perfection through it then then we would we would we would have embraced a principle which we would have embraced a principle which would make some of our more difficult would make some of our more difficult decisions just a little bit easier well now the church is not the church is not a mutual insurance company a mutual insurance company whose object is to protect and shield whose object is to protect and shield its individual members its individual members it is an organism whose aim is to it is an organism whose aim is to represent christ in the world represent christ in the world to establish his truth and righteousness to establish his truth and righteousness the offender who is only anxious to the offender who is only anxious to escape judgment escape judgment and who wants only forgiveness on the and who wants only forgiveness on the instant often shows instant often shows that he cares little for the course of that he cares little for the course of christ christ but has as the center of his concern his but has as the center of his concern his own comfort own comfort and and reputation the truly repentant sinner reputation the truly repentant sinner will accept the judgment of the ecclesia will accept the judgment of the ecclesia and continue to love those who have and continue to love those who have uttered judgment uttered judgment and will continue to attend its worship and will continue to attend its worship until in good time until in good time full restoration is achieved and in that full restoration is achieved and in that way way the structure of the ecclesia will be the structure of the ecclesia will be preserved