A 2024 Decision for Disciples of Christ

Transcript

um yeah so the topic today talk about timely uh you're sure right about that Steve um you know all we're hearing about if we have any kind of exposure to television radio the media in any shape or form um everybody's super focused in on this this us election that's coming up um in fact almost to the point where I was like well do we even want to talk about this like is this something people want to hear about in the Ecclesia you know because this is our Bible class this is our time to ort of get away from sort of these worldly cares and concerns um and I wouldn't blame you if you felt that way um it's all around us you know you got the late night TV shows and comedians having fun with the election uh opposite that in seriousness you have the assassination attempts against Donald Trump you know just really shocking things that we're seeing um social media's going bananas I wouldn't know anything about that but uh you got the conversation about media bias the debates the factchecking the controversy

um the controversies about dark money uh the polling the elect world map the swing States um you know just a lot for politics nerds to sort of walk out on um and I think kind of above all of that you have this underlying Stress and Anxiety about what's going to happen in the United States I was talking to to Brother John Perks at the faith launch conference um this past weekend about it and and he was saying yeah everybody in Canada we're we're tuned in too you know we're concerned about what happens to our our big neighbor to the to the South um you know it's it's affecting and reflecting attitudes in other countries um and speaking of the faith launch conference you know if we think we've got it bad here in Massachusetts for those who live here um I would say try living in the swing state um you're just driving down to Pennsylvania uh obviously a swing state you know all of the Billboards on the highway the truck ERS for Trump the nurses for Harris you know just constant um bombardment of of political advertising and just to kind of put this in in some context uh this nonprofit Open Secret stat said in 2024 uh 5 a half billion has been spent on the presidential election just that's an astronomical amount of money um that number increases by another 10 billion if you include the Congressional races um but but if you think about Just5 A5 billion dollars on presidential race um to influence who among two people are getting a job you know no job search should be that costly it's just insane how much money is being spent um so the topic for tonight's class of course is is our uh community's extension from

politics um this position isn't very popular I would say um voting is often presented as being part of a citizen's civic duty um a task that every responsible adult should undertake um and it's important for us to emphasize that our decision is not based based on apathy right it's not that we're too preoccupied to go to a polling Center or or that we don't really care about the

election um we need to be clear that our position is not like this thoughtless der elction of civic duty but but really principled position based on reason um

I I also want to acknowledge that our exstension from politics isn't exactly something you can point to a crystal clear scripture that says you shall not vat or whatever um we'll certainly look at some scriptures tonight that leads us to that conclusion um but I'd say that this is something that's spiritually discerned this is a decision that comes from meditating on God's word our positions as subjects of the kingdom of God um and our allegiance to to Christ Our Savior

um so before we we want to get into all that I want to share a little background um and maybe something that was the impetus for this class

um so this this past week probably couple weeks ago now I watched a video published by WCF and they they asked the question as America goes to the polls what should Christians do and before watching the video they had the website asked you to to read this brief disclaimer that essentially States WCS strong supports the historical Christadelphian position and disciples are pilgrims and sojourners in this world citizens of a country yet to come and accordingly Believers should not partake in any political activity so so they they they put the statement out as soon as you open the video you can see why they put it out because several of the the christadelphians on this panel immediately speak about why they chose to vote um and I I found that very jarring um I found a little bit disturbing to hear um and I do admire WCF for putting the voices of young people in our community out there um but my first reaction was well is this even a question we should be really entertaining um because it shows that Christadelphian learn single-minded on this issue I think most of us are I think there are exceptions um but but this kind of content might show their peers that that voting might be a legitimate option um then my second thought was you know it's probably kind of naive if a Christan young person or you know more mature person even wants to to vote if they're drawn to participate in the political process they're going to do it regardless of the Ecclesia official position um so I will talk a little bit about the Ecclesia position um and sort of reasons uh that relate to the community um and Community UNIF Unity um as well as arguments that are really based on sort of the biblical perspective I think it's important to kind of decouple there's two reasons um that we have stay one is because we respect the community that we're part of and the historical position that we have and then the other part is um really why does the community have that position that's that's where we go to scripture and think about our allegiance to Christ Our citizenship in heaven so just before we get to that a few of the statements that were offered um one panelist said one of the ways we can help people who are less fortunate than us and positively affect people in our communities is by voting and that's something you often hear right that this is a way to to improve our communities um another panelist said we have an obligation to the people around us outside of our church it's our duty to love them and support them and some of the ways that we can do this is by voting again this is one of the ways it's some of the ways um it's the way that that uh some of them

chose another panel is connected to her uh her training as a surgeon and she said when you're seeing people teenagers that are victims of gun violence and you're wondering is there more that you can do in the community figuring out what factors are involved in this person ending up here and a lot of that is policy one of the Shier ways to change policy is to vote and I'm not going to critique these arguments per se just now because I think there's a common theme I wanted to draw out which is the world is hurting and we're not content to stand apart

so I think the intentions are good here um but but there may be some deception happening um so so let's talk about this a little more and maybe why there's motivation for some of us some of us might be tempted to get involved in politics and we need to do thinking carefully about this

um one of my my favorite authors outside of Chris Adelphia is the former Anglican Bishop NT Wright um and I have his book uh surprised by hope here in this book uh Wright argues persuasively for a literal Kingdom of God in which Jesus at some time in the future is bodily present and reigning over the Earth um and I know that's not what you'd expect from an Anglican Bishop um but he's very much aligned with the chelian position about the return of Christ and the kingdom of God on Earth uh he rejects the idea that Christians will be speed away to heaven in a Rapture and he he sees that as a false doctrine that is actually leading mainstream christiandom to to have a disinterest in doing good in the present uh sort of the idea is why should we be concerned about pollution and global warming and all these issues facing the planet uh for example if this isn't our final hope I mean let God burn the thing up we're going to heaven so he he's very much opposed to that uh for the reasons that that we you know we believe Jesus is coming so we we need to take care of this earth and the people AR um so so just to share a quote from this book surprised by

hope uh WR writes we cannot get off the hook of present responsibility as many Christians try to do not least within parts of fundamentalism by declaring that the world is currently such a mess and there's nothing that can be done about it until the Lord returns it leaves the church with nothing to do in the present except care for the wounded as best we can while we wait for a different kind of Salvation altogether

um and it's occurred to me in the past that that some of our ecclesias fall into this trap of thinking we know that the world's a mess everybody knows that but but does it mean that there's nothing that can be done about it presently um and and I've heard this sort of attitude among christans that our focus should be on strengthening the things which remain really turning inwardly putting up the walls against the outside world cling ourselves away um as much as possible so that we can retain the

um and uh one brother who may or may not be on the call tonight described people with this attitude as the Frozen chosen uh which I thought was humorous um but but go going back to the panel right I think young people resent that attitude and and really what a hopeless way of thinking it is that there's no good to be obtained in the present um of course it's wonderful to have a hope in the future and we know things won't be perfect in this world things will will decline until Christ puts them to rights and and

um yeah so we acknowledge that entirely um but I think an attitude that says there's nothing that can be done now um that we can only wait for the return of Christ does put young people who have their whole lives ahead of them right they they're concerned about this and so voting may have some appeal um

I'm not excusing it I'm not trying to say that it's it's okay in that circumstance because of um the ecclesial kind of disengagement from the problems of the world that that you know young people can go ahead and break with the tradition of our community I don't think that's right at all um but but maybe it's a way to understand what's going on a little bit

um you know young people were very vocal a couple years ago back in 2020 when we had uh George Floyd killing and the black lives matter movement um and there was all sorts of dialogue in our community about you know is it right to get involved in protests and things like that

um

and I I I feel like some young people I've talked to uh indicated that they didn't feel like they were heard or that that there was a a gap in understanding between them and their Elders

um and so I wouldn't be surprised if some some Chris Adelphia are are going to break with our collegial tradition this year and and be voting next Tuesday

um so here's where I think there might be some deception happening um because I I believe that you know vote voting is a is a I haven't done it myself but I understand that it takes time out of your day you have to go to a polling place you're probably going to stand in line for a while um and and you cast your vote and overall it's a relatively low effort thing to do and a much lower impact act so in my mind abstaining from voting is actually more of a symbolic thing because there's much more effective ways for people who want to make a real difference to help others improve the world in practical ways and I would just suggest that if your Ecclesia doesn't have the infrastructure or the programming to help their local community um then its members should be volunteering for other organizations and donating their time and resources is to help their neighbors heck we we should be spending much more time uh helping one another um there's lots of ways in which we can contribute to society that doesn't require us to

vote

um the Apostle John writes little children let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth we have to show our love in the things that we do um I just don't think that voting is necessarily the most effective way to be doing that I think there's very positive reasons for us to symbolically abstain um from voting and we we'll get to those later in the class

godwell um of course Paul let us do good to everyone especially those of the household of faith but obviously he's saying you know but but also to those outside of the

household

okay so let's see let's look at the position of our community

um I have with me as well our ecclesial guide um and alongside our statement of faith we often find the the doctrines to be rejected it's actually found that the doctrines to be rejected varies a little bit depending on which collegial guide I was reading but um number 35 that we are at Liberty to serve in the army or as police constables to take part in politics or recover debts by legal

coercion um

so so participating in the political process by voting it's it's definitely a deviation from this long held ecclesial tradition um so I I think now is a good time to think about like the ecclesial Unity uh the group cohesion the fact that as a block we have this position of not voting obviously many Christians do participate in political Pro process and and we're starting to see some of the problems associated with that if we have time we'll talk about Christian nationalism a little bit later um but for christadelphians we've always stepped away from that and that's been connected to our conscientious objection um so I think it's worth at least acknowledging the potential for us to lose some of a group identity when members start breaking away from this behavioral Norm that we've established in this group so just something to be thinking

about um speaking of conscientious objection um brother Peter Hemingray formerly the editor of the tidings wrote in his book within the camps um about the stories of conscientious objectives and one of the stories they tells is is that of my grandfather uh William Henry link and his brothers John and Charlie who served as cosos during World War II um and in the concluding pages of this book he shares this observation um as the events of those who experienced the draft fade from our Collective memory right you know it was a long time ago we haven't had a draft for many years there has been troubling views expressed by some those questioning are historic position on voting if Brethren speak or behave in a manner that confuses the authorities or observing consistency compared to our scripturally based position those in positions of authority will lose respect for the good reputation the Chris delphian body has earned in years past this could easily lead to the Selective Service boards making stricter decisions and judgments than in the past um basically what he's saying is in the eyes of the authorities our exstension from political involvement enables our exstension from military service and that might not seem fair you know I maybe I think it's okay to vote but I'm not going to go out and kill somebody um in in a war um but that's not necessarily how the authorities see these things so we want to retain our our reputation for being a political uh if we don't we're going to find it harder to justify our objection to military service as a group as a community

all right let's press forward I wanted to take a look at some of the biblical reasons uh for our community's position as well right that's what we um should be concerned about uh so so a question was posed um I'm not sure when this was I think this was probably in the first half of the 20th century

um question was O for still to vote and so this brother responded um with a reference from 2 Timothy chapter 2 no man that Wars entangles himself with the Affairs of this life that he may please him who has chosen him to be a soldier goes on to comment that the Bible enjoins separateness from all worldly politics our duty is to patiently await the reappearing of the Lord to overthrow all existing governments and to keep aloof from the miserable and Godless aims and schemes of modern

politicians um I thought that was pretty good uh the challenge with this verse from from Timothy is that we inevitably do become entangled with the Affairs of this life in in all kinds of different ways um and it can be difficult even to Define what a potential entanglement would be um and this is where I I started by saying that this question of voting is a matter of spiritual discernment takes meditation and kind of thoughtfulness to come to this conclusion um and you see there's a whole bunch of scriptures are provided uh and most of these speak about uh our separation from the world in a general way without specifying exactly what constitutes crossing a line um and that's of course how God teaches us he teaches us with principles um it's not a commandment per se um and we might draw the line in different places um now again as we've said the community has drawn a line in a certain place that we ought to respect um but for each of us individually as we consider what scripture says about this we'll just pull up a few of the citations um on the panel on the right just reading these I think you'll agree that there is a concept of standing apart from Human political processes

um you know talking about citizenship it's in heaven you know the city that we're looking for um the kingdom which is not of this world this is the language of politics this is language of government um and so I think the idea is for us not to consider ourselves part of the present governments and and to to really see ourselves as belonging somewhere else

um you know politics is essentially a system of of human organizing human power um coordinating and controlling uh human beings it's it's how we kind of band together to get things done I say we I shouldn't but but that's that's politics right and in my mind can't help but go to gen 11 the Tower of Babel um and God recognizes that this system of organized human interest it's it's not going to be aligned with the Divine Purpose um and this case study from scripture the Tower of Babel it really resonated with me when Janu was talking about the miserable and Godless schemes of modern politicians uh just the scheme to build a tower to the heavens um and I do believe that there are many politicians who sincerely hope to do good in the world um but politics is fundamentally about self-promotion and serving the interests of one's

constituents so if you if you want to get elected and get into a position of power you have to do good to the people that got you there right and you're not necessarily concerned about anybody else except for the ones that put you in that position and preserve you in that position um and so there's there's many examples of of politicians doing things that are not necessar neily in the global good uh we could we could go on and on I I pulled a few examples for example um the West Virginia senator uh Joe Mansion um I think he's retired now but you know for a long time he defended coal interests in West Virginia because that that region of the country is so dependent on those jobs but obviously that action was opposed to you know environmental prerogatives um so so there's always this sort of trade-off that you're dealing with um I'm not going to go through the other examples but I the point here is that the politicians serve themselves and their constituents often at the cost of others and that that cost isn't always clear to voters or even the decision makers themselves and even when it is clear right politicians might accept those negative consequences uh upon others you think about America first um you're probably thinking more Republican party than the Democratic Party in the United States but fundamentally both parties the United States government is going to be American first even if you know we think that we're we're not we are uh they

are um so I pulled this verse from Jeremiah which I think just speaks to sort of man's inability to to really take proper direction and guidance uh without God

um the direct influence of God's spirit can can can direct us in ways of righteousness right if we are listening to God but without that the political system really amplifies the problems uh that relate to man's ungovernable nature right in many ways the world we live in today has has improved um some of the issues

like the war that was fought in the United States over slavery I mean thank God that Abomination that awful practice uh doesn't exist in this country in the same way but there are other issues in which you know we hear about human trafficking and other you know somewhat related Pro uh problems uh there's there's Financial bondage um there's other problems that we don't see the way we saw slavery back then right it's it's the whole hindsight is 2020 um our lives are are easy in some ways we have many conveniences we have access to health care um there's there's surgeries that can be done now that couldn't be done previously there's there's medicines that that's available now that wasn't before so we can point to many things and say oh the world is generally improving but we know that there's so many other problems that are just getting worse and worse and bigger and bigger

um and so there are limits to what can be achieved through the political system I guess is where I'm kind of concluding

um I wanted to share a story I heard if that's okay with everybody um it just brings us back to that second Timothy reference we looked at previously um and so the story was about a a US Air Force

officer um and he took a position against voting until he was retired from the Air

Force and by his thinking being in the military meant being part of the government since the president is also the commander-in-chief of the military um now military members are are prohibited from expressing political favoritism or opinions uh if they're in any kind of official capacity right if they're wearing their uniform they can't express a political opinion

um and I think in fact when the the president gives the State of the Union Address you've got the Supreme Court Justices and the sort of the higher ups in the military sitting there in the front row I don't believe they're applauding or standing up um when the the president speaks I'm not 100% sure about that but in general that's the practice of of the military not to to align with

politicians um so this this Air Force officer's logic was that even though he's allowed or even encouraged to vote his status as a member of the Armed Forces meant he should be inherently apolitical um and personally this person didn't want to be in the position of having voted for his commander and Chief's opponent imagine you vote for candidate B candidate a ultimate gets elected and now candidate a is your boss right the the commander-in-chief um this person didn't want to be in that situation so it's not a perfect analogy for our situation at all but I think it's enough to illustrate that even secular persons can frame a reasonable argument for abstaining for politics

um we might not be concerned about voting for the commander-in Chiefs opponent but but imagine voting for someone who opposes Jesus at his coming wouldn't that be

concerning and even if God has appointed that person to be in the role how would we feel about aligning ourselves with the vessels fit for Destruction

um I'm not sure how I feel about that

um another way of looking at this would be you know if we sincerely believe that God rules in the Kingdom of man and gives it to whomsoever he Wills

as Nebuchadnezzar learns in the Book of Daniel um then any vote cast for a losing candidate is actually a vote against God's purpose um there's there's different variations on that way of thinking it's it's sort of difficult to contemplate but um really we can check out of that whole uh problematic sort of situation by by staying

unentangled that's the the main point I want to get away with that story so any any thoughts on that before we move

on feel free to interject if there's any comments or questions I know folks like to chat so I don't want to grandstand

here all right keep

moving so while I Was preparing this class um something happened in the news

something's always happening in the news

um and really this whole conversation we're having tonight it's impossible to talk about without kind of breaching the subject of Christians and and voting and this alignment that there is between Evangelical Christians and the political right um now I I don't think we should be surprised with that alignment um that that people who are Christian tend to vote um

conservative because conservative policy is inherently change averse right conservatism uh wants to keep things the way they are right and as Society is becoming progressively more Godless um Christians are likely to align with a party that preserves biblical values that shouldn't come as a surprise

um now in 2024 the the religious connection it seems like it's almost a second thought right this this magga movement is is untethered from Biblical morality in so many ways um but you still see the religious dog whistles coming out to call Christians to vote for Republican candidates um so one such event occurred while I Was preparing this talk uh candidate Harris was at a rally in Wisconsin on on Thursday October 17th and there was a Heckler in the audience and she responded to the Heckler by saying you guys are at the wrong rally uh meant to be at the smaller one down the street it was you know clever making fun of Trump's uh crowd sizes and things like that um now now there were two conflicting accounts about who she was responding to uh Fox News said that someone um an anti-abortion activist was in the crowd and had shouted Christ is

King and you can imagine what it would feel like to to get dismissed the way they did after making that testimony um now other news outlets responded that that she was actually talking to somebody else who had exclaimed that's a lie okay so so on one side there's there's sort of this polit uh religious connection on the other side it's you know just somebody being disruptive accusing her of being dishonest um and there's an audio recording but you can't clear clearly hear exactly what the Heckler said okay so that's sort of the setup um now a few days later uh Ben Carson um I think was was in he was part of Trump's cabinet during his first Administration you know he's he's stumping for Trump and uh no he doesn't acknowledge the ambiguity about the the Heckler and what exactly they had said what was Harris responding to you know and and I'm sorry even to be talking about something that's happening in the news and and these kind of um prival things really

um but it's sort of I think there's something to be learned from this um he doesn't acknowledge the ambiguities so it's it's not a totally honest use of the event that had occurred during Harris's rally um and you can see he's he's peppered in several Bible Bible verses into his speech he's clearly appealing to the Christians in in his audience I think what he goes on to say is is quite

interesting he goes on to say recognize that in the last election 20 million Evangelical Christians did not vote think about the power that exists in the people who believe in God we don't have to be victims we don't have to complain we can absolutely control the direction of our nation but we have to get involved to do it and recognize that we have

responsibility I think Carson might be ignoring the scriptures that speak of for example Zechariah not by might not by power but by my spirit or Hezekiah who speaks of sakur in his arm with him is the arm of flesh but with us is the Lord Our God and sort of the the soft power that comes from um from being a Believer from follow believing that God's strength will get us through these things and uh you know brother John perks last week talked about the uh the way of Rome and the way of the Rome is strength and might and using your majority power to influence change that's it's right in line with the way of Rome that's that's what Carson is advocating for when he says we can absolutely control the direction it's control by our votes not by the power of God um so so he's missing that point entirely um he goes on to say now I know there are a lot of Christians who say both sides are corrupt and I don't want to be involved in the corrupt system I don't want to have to choose between the lesser of two evils okay end quote his comment is unless Jesus Christ is on the ballot you're always choosing between the lesser of two evils now remember that statement about the lesser of two evil we're going to come back to that in a moment uh but but I found the statement shocking really because he's firstly he's admitting Trump is is evil just less evil and Harris uh secondly the whole speech is just blatant on the- nose

manipulation um if you look at

the that yeah okay so in in 2020 81% of white Evangelical Protestants voted for the Republican nominee and so Carson's reaching out to that last 19% that did didn't drink the Kool-Aid of Christian nationalism um and this idea of Christian nationalism I'm sure many of you have heard of you know it's exhibit a for why we as chelian shouldn't get involved in politics

um so the quote

here Christian nationalism takes the name of Christ for a worldly political agenda proclaiming that its program is the political program for every True Believer so if if you're a Christian and this is the politics to get with um that wrong in principle no matter what that is wrong in principle no matter what the agenda is because only the church is authorized to proclaim the name of Jesus and carry his standard into the world it's even worse with a political movement that Champions some causes that are unjust so again think about the Lesser two evils there are some unjust causes with any politician you're going to vote for

um Christian nationalism in such cases is calling evil good and good evil it's taking the name of Christ as a fig Leaf to cover its political program um so this is really about manipulating Believers not actually um not doing not engaging in anything that Believers should be involved with um so I just wanted to share that uh there's a lot more to say about that in the June 2024 uh Tidings um WR Dave Jennings had an editorial in this this uh tidings

uh where he commented I think the context was he was commenting on the the Trump Bibles that were being sold um his comment was I wonder if there's ever been a more explicit attempt to affix Christian values to nationalism and the pursuit of political power uh usually it's more concealed appearing only as a call for Christians to stand up for the values of the scriptures after all wouldn't the country be stronger and more blessed if the candidate elected espoused the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ um and yeah I think that's really appealing right who who Among Us you know even if we're not voting right we'd probably be happy if the present of the country that we live in had a moral compass that was Guided by biblical principles I mean that seems like a good thing right it's no wonder that that you know people are lining up to vote for um for somebody who can quote scripture or you know seems to be influenced by uh the word of God in some way um but I I think it's also very difficult to see well which which is the candidate that's most aligned with for lack of a better term the politics of Jesus right um not that Jesus is involved in any of this world's politics but the the positions um that that are important to the government of the kingdom of God the things that will be put forward when you have truly righteous government um I mentioned the the PO the polls um and the numbers of protestant Evangelical voters if you look at Catholics they're much more split obviously Catholics feel very strongly about issues like abortion which are traditionally conservative but they're much more aligned with the Social Gospel as well and sort of welfare and caring for the poor and and Justice issues um so they're much more split when you look at um the polling for Catholics and how they vote um

but from the the perspective of biblical morality the question of which candidate is best or even lesser of two evils it it's really not clear uh so so David's editorial goes on to contemplate uh the harm that could occur in the Ecclesia if it got too involved with politics um he talks about you know hearing political exhortations or Ecclesia being divided over these things um you know just just the damage that could come and I think this connects back to sort of that ecclesial and unity uh question that we we started off with