A 2024 Decision for Disciples of Christ

Transcript

um yeah so the topic today talk about x timely uh you're sure right about that x Steve um you know all we're hearing x about if we have any kind of exposure to x television radio the media in any shape x or form um everybody's super focused in x on this this us election that's coming x up um in fact almost to the point where x I was like well do we even want to talk x about this like is this something people x want to hear about in the Ecclesia you x know because this is our Bible class x this is our time to ort of get away from x sort of these worldly cares and concerns x um and I wouldn't blame you if you felt x that way um it's all around us you know x you got the late night TV shows and x comedians having fun with the election x uh opposite that in seriousness you have x the assassination attempts against x Donald Trump you know just really x shocking things that we're seeing um x social media's going bananas I wouldn't x know anything about that but uh you got x the conversation about media bias the x debates the factchecking the controversy x um the controversies about dark money uh x the polling the elect world map the x swing x States um you know just a lot for x politics nerds to sort of walk out on um x and I think kind of above all of that x you x have this underlying Stress and Anxiety x about what's going to happen in the x United States I was talking to to x Brother John Perks at the faith launch x conference um this past weekend about it x and and he was saying yeah everybody in x Canada we're we're tuned in too you know x we're concerned about what happens to x our our big neighbor to the to the South x um you know it's it's affecting and x reflecting attitudes in other countries x um and speaking of the faith launch x conference you know if we think we've x got it bad here in Massachusetts for x those who live here um I would say try x living in the swing state um you're just x driving down to x Pennsylvania uh obviously a swing state x you know all of the Billboards on the x highway the truck ERS for Trump the x nurses for Harris you know just constant x um bombardment of of political x advertising and just to kind of put this x in in some context uh this nonprofit x Open Secret stat said in 2024 uh 5 a x half billion has been spent on the x presidential election just that's an x astronomical amount of money um that x number increases by another 10 billion x if you include the Congressional races x um but but if you think about Just5 A5 x billion dollars on presidential race um x to influence who among two people are x getting a job you know no job search x should be that costly it's just insane x how much money is being x spent um so the topic for tonight's x class of course is is our uh community's x extension from x politics um this position isn't very x popular I would say um voting is often x presented as being part of a citizen's x civic duty um a task that every x responsible adult should undertake um x and it's important for us to emphasize x that our decision is not based based on x apathy right it's not that we're too x preoccupied to go to a polling Center or x or that we don't really care about the x election um we need to be clear that our x position is not like this thoughtless x der elction of civic duty but but really x principled position based on x reason um x I I also want to acknowledge that our x exstension from politics isn't exactly x something you can point to a crystal x clear scripture that says you shall not x vat or whatever um we'll certainly look x at some scriptures tonight that leads us x to that conclusion um but I'd say that x this is something that's spiritually x discerned this is a decision that comes x from meditating on God's word our x positions as subjects of the kingdom of x God um and our allegiance to to Christ x Our Savior x um so before we we want to get into all x that I want to share a little background x um and maybe something that was the x impetus for this class x um so this this past week probably x couple weeks ago now I watched a video x published by WCF and they they asked the x question as America goes to the polls x what should Christians do and before x watching the video they had the website x asked you to to read this brief x disclaimer that essentially States WCS x strong supports the historical x Christadelphian position and disciples x are pilgrims and sojourners in this x world citizens of a country yet to come x and accordingly Believers should not x partake in any political activity so so x they they they put the statement out as x soon as you open the video you can see x why they put it out because several of x the the christadelphians on this panel x immediately speak about why they chose x to vote um and I I found that very x jarring um I found a little bit x disturbing to hear um and I do admire x WCF for putting the voices of young x people in our community out there um but x my first reaction was well is this even x a question we should be really x entertaining um because it shows that x Christadelphian learn single-minded on x this issue I think most of us are I x think there are x exceptions um but but this kind of x content might show their peers that that x voting might be a legitimate option um x then my second thought was you know it's x probably kind of naive if a Christan x young person or you know more mature x person even wants to to vote if they're x drawn to participate in the political x process they're going to do it x regardless of the Ecclesia official x position um so I will talk a little bit x about the Ecclesia position um and sort x of reasons uh that relate to the x community um and Community UNIF Unity um x as well as arguments that are really x based on sort of the biblical x perspective I think it's important to x kind of decouple there's two reasons um x that we have stay one is because we x respect the community that we're part of x and the historical position that we have x and then the other part is um really why x does the community have that position x that's that's where we go to scripture x and think about our allegiance to Christ x Our citizenship in x heaven so just before we get to that a x few of the statements that were offered x um one panelist said one of the ways we x can help people who are less fortunate x than us and positively affect people in x our communities is by voting and that's x something you often hear right that this x is a way to to improve our communities x um another panelist said we have an x obligation to the people around us x outside of our church it's our duty to x love them and support them and some of x the ways that we can do this is by x voting again this is one of the ways x it's some of the ways um it's the way x that that uh some of them x chose another panel is connected to her x uh her training as a surgeon and she x said when you're seeing people teenagers x that are victims of gun violence and x you're wondering is there more that you x can do in the community figuring out x what factors are involved in this person x ending up here and a lot of that is x policy one of the Shier ways to change x policy is to x vote and I'm not going to critique these x arguments per se just now because I x think there's a common theme I wanted to x draw out which is the world is hurting x and we're not content to stand apart x so I think the intentions are good here x um but but there may be some deception x happening um so so let's talk about this x a little more and maybe why there's x motivation for some of us some of us x might be tempted to get involved in x politics and we need to do thinking x carefully about this x um one of my my favorite authors outside x of Chris Adelphia is the former Anglican x Bishop NT Wright um and I have his book x uh surprised by hope x here in this book uh Wright argues x persuasively for a literal Kingdom of x God in which Jesus at some time in the x future is bodily present and reigning x over the Earth um and I know that's not x what you'd expect from an Anglican x Bishop um but he's very much aligned x with the chelian position about the x return of Christ and the kingdom of God x on Earth uh he rejects the idea that x Christians will be speed away to heaven x in a Rapture and he he sees that as a x false doctrine that is actually leading x mainstream christiandom to to have a x disinterest in doing good in the present x uh sort of the idea is why should we be x concerned about pollution and global x warming and all these issues facing the x planet uh for example if this isn't our x final hope I mean let God burn the thing x up we're going to heaven so he he's very x much opposed to that uh for the reasons x that that we you know we believe Jesus x is coming so we we need to take care of x this earth and the people x AR um so so just to share a quote from x this book surprised by x hope uh WR writes we cannot get off the x hook of present responsibility as many x Christians try to do not least within x parts of x fundamentalism by declaring that the x world is currently such a mess and x there's nothing that can be done about x it until the Lord returns it leaves the x church with nothing to do in the present x except care for the wounded as best we x can while we wait for a different kind x of Salvation altogether x um and it's occurred to me in the past x that that some of our ecclesias fall x into this trap of thinking we know that x the world's a mess everybody knows that x but but does it mean that there's x nothing that can be done about it x presently um and and I've heard this x sort of attitude among christans that x our focus should be on strengthening the x things which remain really turning x inwardly putting up the walls against x the outside world cling ourselves away x um as much as possible so that we can x retain the x um and uh one brother who may or may not x be on the call tonight described people x with this attitude as the Frozen chosen x uh which I thought was humorous um but x but go going back to the panel right I x think young people resent that attitude x and and really what a hopeless way of x thinking it is that there's no good to x be obtained in the present um of course x it's wonderful to have a hope in the x future and we know things won't be x perfect in this world things will will x decline until Christ puts them to rights x and and x um yeah so we acknowledge that entirely x um but I think an attitude that says x there's nothing that can be done now um x that we can only wait for the return of x Christ does put young people who have x their whole lives ahead of them right x they they're concerned about this and so x voting may have some appeal um x I'm not excusing it I'm not trying to x say that it's it's okay in that x circumstance because of um the ecclesial x kind of disengagement from the problems x of the world that that you know young x people can go ahead and break with the x tradition of our community I don't think x that's right at all um but but maybe x it's a way to understand what's going on x a little bit x um you know young people were very vocal x a couple years ago back in 2020 when we x had uh George Floyd killing and the x black lives matter movement um and there x was all sorts of dialogue in our x community about you know is it right to x get involved in protests and things like x that x um x and I I I feel like some young people x I've talked to uh indicated that they x didn't feel like they were heard or that x that there was a a gap in understanding x between them and their Elders x um and so I wouldn't be surprised if x some some Chris Adelphia are are going x to break with our collegial tradition x this year and and be voting next Tuesday x um so here's where I think there might x be some deception happening um because I x I believe that you know vote voting is a x is a I haven't done it myself but I x understand that it takes time out of x your day you have to go to a polling x place you're probably going to stand in x line for a while um and and you cast x your x vote and overall it's a relatively low x effort thing to do x and a much lower impact act so in my x mind abstaining from voting is actually x more of a symbolic thing because there's x much more effective ways for people who x want to make a real difference to help x others improve the world in practical x ways and I would just suggest that if x your Ecclesia doesn't have the x infrastructure or the programming to x help their local community um then its x members should be volunteering for other x organizations and donating their time x and resources is to help their neighbors x heck we we should be spending much more x time uh helping one another um there's x lots of ways in which we can contribute x to society that doesn't require us to x vote x um the Apostle John writes little x children let us not love in word or talk x but in deed and in truth we have to show x our love in the things that we do um I x just don't think that voting is x necessarily the most effective way to be x doing that x I think there's very positive reasons x for us to symbolically abstain um from x voting and we we'll get to those later x in the class x godwell um of course Paul let us do good x to everyone especially those of the x household of faith but obviously he's x saying you know but but also to those x outside of the x household x okay so let's see let's look at the x position of our community x um I have with me as well our ecclesial x guide um and alongside our statement of x faith we often find the the doctrines to x be rejected it's actually found that the x doctrines to be rejected varies a little x bit depending on which collegial guide I x was reading but um number 35 that we are x at Liberty to serve in the army or as x police constables to take part in x politics or recover debts by legal x coercion um x so so participating in the political x process by voting it's it's definitely a x deviation from this long held ecclesial x tradition um so I I think now is a good x time to think about like the ecclesial x Unity uh the group cohesion the fact x that as a block we have this position of x not voting obviously many Christians do x participate in political Pro process and x and we're starting to see some of the x problems associated with that if we have x time we'll talk about Christian x nationalism a little bit later um but x for christadelphians we've always x stepped away from that and that's been x connected to our conscientious objection x um so I think it's worth at least x acknowledging the potential for us to x lose some of a group identity when x members start breaking away from this x behavioral Norm that we've established x in this group so just something to be x thinking x about um speaking of conscientious x objection um brother Peter Hemingray x formerly the editor of the tidings wrote x in his book within the camps um about x the stories of conscientious objectives x and one of the stories they tells is is x that of my grandfather uh William Henry x link and his brothers John and Charlie x who served as cosos during World War II x um and in the concluding pages of this x book he shares this observation um as x the events of those who experienced the x draft fade from our Collective memory x right you know it was a long time ago we x haven't had a draft for many years there x has been troubling views expressed by x some those questioning are historic x position on voting if Brethren speak or x behave in a manner that confuses the x authorities or observing consistency x compared to our scripturally based x position those in positions of authority x will lose respect for the good x reputation the Chris delphian body has x earned in years past this could easily x lead to the Selective Service boards x making stricter decisions and judgments x than in the x past um basically what he's saying is in x the eyes of the authorities our x exstension from political involvement x enables our exstension from military x service and that might not seem fair you x know I maybe I think it's okay to vote x but I'm not going to go out and kill x somebody um in in a x war um but that's not necessarily how x the authorities see these things so we x want to retain our our reputation for x being a political uh if we don't we're x going to find it harder to justify our x objection to military service as a group x as a community x all right let's press forward I wanted x to take a look at some of the biblical x reasons uh for our community's position x as well right that's what we um should x be concerned about uh so so a question x was posed um I'm not sure when this was x I think this was probably in the first x half of the 20th century x um question was O for still to vote and x so this brother responded um with a x reference from 2 Timothy chapter 2 x no man that Wars entangles himself with x the Affairs of this life that he may x please him who has chosen him to be a x soldier goes on to comment that the x Bible enjoins separateness from all x worldly politics our duty is to x patiently await the reappearing of the x Lord to overthrow all existing x governments and to keep aloof from the x miserable and Godless aims and schemes x of modern x politicians um I thought that was pretty x good uh x the challenge with this verse from from x Timothy is that we inevitably do become x entangled with the Affairs of this life x in in all kinds of different ways um and x it can be difficult even to Define what x a potential entanglement would be um and x this is where I I started by saying that x this question of voting is a matter of x spiritual discernment takes meditation x and kind of thoughtfulness to come to x this x conclusion um and you see there's a x whole bunch of scriptures are provided x uh and most of these speak about uh our x separation from the world in a general x way without specifying exactly what x constitutes crossing a line um and x that's of course how God teaches us he x teaches us with principles um it's not a x commandment per se um and we might draw x the line in different places um now x again as we've said the community has x drawn a line in a certain place that we x ought to respect um but for each of us x individually as we consider what x scripture says about this we'll just x pull up a few of the citations um on the x panel on the x right just reading these I think you'll x agree that there is a concept of x standing apart from Human political x processes x um you know talking about citizenship x it's in heaven you know the city that x we're looking for um the kingdom which x is not of this world this is the x language of politics this is language of x government um and so I think the idea is x for us not to consider ourselves part of x the present governments and and to to x really see ourselves as belonging x somewhere else x um you know politics is essentially a x system of of human organizing human x power um coordinating and controlling uh x human beings it's it's how we kind of x band together to get things done I say x we I shouldn't but but that's that's x politics right and in my mind can't help x but go to gen 11 the Tower of Babel um x and God recognizes that this system of x organized human interest it's it's not x going to be aligned with the Divine x Purpose um and this case study from x scripture the Tower of Babel it really x resonated with me when Janu was talking x about the miserable and Godless schemes x of modern politicians uh just the scheme x to build a tower to the x heavens um and I do believe that there x are many politicians who sincerely hope x to do good in the world um but politics x is fundamentally about x self-promotion and serving the interests x of one's x constituents so if you if you want to x get elected and get into a position of x power you have to do good to the people x that got you there right and you're not x necessarily concerned about anybody else x except for the ones that put you in that x position and preserve you in that x position um and so there's there's many x examples of of politicians doing things x that are not necessar neily in the x global good uh we could we could go on x and on I I pulled a few examples for x example um the West Virginia senator uh x Joe Mansion um I think he's retired now x but you know for a long time he defended x coal interests in West Virginia because x that that region of the country is so x dependent on those jobs but obviously x that action was opposed to you know x environmental x prerogatives um so so there's always x this sort of trade-off that you're x dealing with um I'm not going to go x through the other examples but I the x point here is that the politicians serve x themselves and their constituents often x at the cost of others and that that cost x isn't always clear to voters or even the x decision makers themselves and even when x it is clear right politicians might x accept those negative consequences uh x upon others you think about America x first um you're probably thinking x more Republican party than the x Democratic Party in the United States x but fundamentally both parties the x United States government is going to be x American first even if you know we think x that we're we're not we are uh they x are um so I pulled this verse from x Jeremiah which I think just speaks to x sort of man's inability to to really x take proper direction and guidance uh x without God x um the direct influence of God's spirit x can can can direct us in ways of x righteousness right if we are listening x to God but without that the political x system really amplifies the problems uh x that relate to man's ungovernable nature x right in many ways the world we live in x today has has improved um some of the x issues x like the war that was fought in the x United States over slavery I mean thank x God that Abomination that awful practice x uh doesn't exist in this country in the x same way but there are other issues in x which you know we hear about human x trafficking and other you know somewhat x related Pro uh problems uh there's x there's Financial bondage um there's x other problems that we don't see the way x we saw slavery back then right it's it's x the whole hindsight is 2020 um our lives x are are easy in some ways we have many x conveniences we have access to health x care x um there's there's surgeries that can be x done now that couldn't be done x previously there's there's medicines x that that's available now that wasn't x before so we can point to many things x and say oh the world is generally x improving but we know that there's so x many other problems that are just x getting worse and worse and bigger and x bigger x um and so there are limits to what can x be achieved through the political system x I guess is where I'm kind of concluding x um I wanted to share a story I heard if x that's okay with everybody um it just x brings us back to that second Timothy x reference we looked at x previously um and so the story was about x a a US Air Force x officer um and he took a position x against voting until he was retired from x the Air x Force and by his thinking being in the x military meant being part of the x government since the president is also x the commander-in-chief of the x military um now military members are are x prohibited from expressing political x favoritism or opinions uh if they're in x any kind of official capacity right if x they're wearing their uniform they can't x express a political opinion x um and I think in fact when the the x president gives the State of the Union x Address you've got the Supreme Court x Justices and the sort of the higher ups x in the military sitting there in the x front row I don't believe they're x applauding or standing up x um when the the president x speaks I'm not 100% sure about that but x in general that's the practice of of the x military not to to align with x politicians um so this this Air Force x officer's logic was that even though x he's allowed or even encouraged to vote x his status as a member of the Armed x Forces meant he should be inherently x apolitical um and personally this person x didn't want to be in the position of x having voted for his commander and x Chief's opponent imagine you vote for x candidate B candidate a ultimate gets x elected and now candidate a is your boss x right the the x commander-in-chief um this person didn't x want to be in that x situation so it's not a perfect analogy x for our situation at all but I think x it's enough to illustrate that even x secular persons can frame a reasonable x argument for abstaining for politics x um we might not be concerned about x voting for the commander-in Chiefs x opponent but but imagine voting for x someone who opposes Jesus at his coming x wouldn't that be x concerning and even if God has appointed x that person to be in the role how would x we feel about aligning ourselves with x the vessels fit for x Destruction x um I'm not sure how I feel about that x um another way of looking at this would x be you know if we sincerely believe that x God rules in the Kingdom of man and x gives it to whomsoever he Wills x as Nebuchadnezzar learns in the Book of x Daniel um then any vote cast for a x losing candidate is actually a vote x against God's purpose um there's there's x different variations on that way of x thinking it's it's sort of difficult to x contemplate but um really we can check x out of that whole uh problematic sort of x situation by by staying x unentangled that's the the main point I x want to get away with that story so any x any thoughts on that before we move x on feel free to interject if there's any x comments or questions I know folks like x to chat so I don't want to grandstand x here all right keep x moving so while I Was preparing this x class um something happened in the news x something's always happening in the news x um and really this whole conversation x we're having tonight it's impossible to x talk about without kind of breaching the x subject of Christians and and voting and x this alignment that there is between x Evangelical Christians and the political x right um now I I don't think we should x be surprised with that alignment um that x that people who are Christian tend to x vote um x conservative because conservative policy x is inherently change averse right x conservatism uh wants to keep things the x way they are right and as Society is x becoming progressively more Godless um x Christians are likely to align with a x party that preserves biblical values x that shouldn't come as a x surprise x um now in 2024 the the religious x connection it seems like it's almost a x second thought right this this magga x movement is is untethered from Biblical x morality in so many ways um but you x still see the religious dog whistles x coming out to call Christians to vote x for Republican candidates um so one such x event occurred while I Was preparing x this talk uh candidate Harris was at a x rally in Wisconsin on on Thursday x October 17th and there was a Heckler in x the x audience and she responded to the x Heckler by saying you guys are at the x wrong x rally uh meant to be at the smaller one x down the street it was you know clever x making fun of Trump's uh crowd sizes and x things like that um now now there were x two conflicting accounts about who she x was responding to uh Fox News said that x someone um an anti-abortion activist was x in the crowd and had shouted Christ is x King and you can x imagine what it would feel like to to x get dismissed the way they did after x making that testimony um now other news x outlets responded that that she was x actually talking to somebody else who x had exclaimed that's a x lie okay so so on one side there's x there's sort of this polit uh religious x connection on the other side it's you x know just somebody being disruptive x accusing her of being x dishonest um and there's an audio x recording but you can't clear clearly x hear exactly what the Heckler said okay x so that's sort of the setup um now a few x days later uh Ben Carson um I think was x was in he was part of Trump's cabinet x during his first Administration you know x he's he's stumping for Trump and uh no x he doesn't acknowledge the ambiguity x about the the Heckler and what exactly x they had said what was Harris responding x to you know and and I'm sorry even to be x talking about something that's happening x in the news and and these kind of um x prival things really x um but it's sort of I think there's x something to be learned from this um he x doesn't acknowledge the ambiguities so x it's it's not a totally honest use of x the event that had occurred during x Harris's rally um and you can see he's x he's peppered in several Bible Bible x verses into his speech he's clearly x appealing to the Christians in in his x audience I think what he goes on to say x is is quite x interesting he goes on to say recognize x that in the last election 20 million x Evangelical Christians did not vote x think about the power that exists in the x people who believe in God we don't have x to be victims we don't have to complain x we can absolutely control the direction x of our nation but we have to get x involved to do it and recognize that we x have x responsibility I think Carson might be x ignoring the scriptures that speak of x for example Zechariah not by might not x by power but by my spirit or Hezekiah x who speaks of sakur in his arm with him x is the arm of flesh but with us is the x Lord Our God and sort of the the soft x power that comes from um from being a x Believer from follow believing that x God's strength will get us through these x things and uh you know brother John x perks last week talked about the uh the x way of Rome and the way of the Rome is x strength and might and using your x majority power to influence change x that's it's right in line with the way x of Rome that's that's what Carson is x advocating for when he says we can x absolutely control the direction it's x control by our votes not by the power of x God um so so he's missing that point x entirely um he goes on to say now I know x there are a lot of Christians who say x both sides are corrupt and I don't want x to be involved in the corrupt system I x don't want to have to choose between the x lesser of two x evils okay end x quote his comment is unless Jesus Christ x is on the ballot you're always choosing x between the lesser of two evils now x remember that statement about the lesser x of two evil we're going to come back to x that in a moment uh but but I found the x statement shocking really because he's x firstly he's admitting Trump is is evil x just less evil and Harris uh secondly x the whole speech is just blatant on the- x nose x manipulation um if you look at x the that yeah okay so in in 2020 81% of x white Evangelical Protestants voted for x the Republican nominee and so Carson's x reaching out to that last 19% that did x didn't drink the Kool-Aid of Christian x nationalism um and this idea of x Christian nationalism I'm sure many of x you have heard of you know it's exhibit x a for why we as chelian shouldn't get x involved in x politics x um so the quote x here Christian nationalism takes the x name of Christ for a worldly political x agenda proclaiming that its program is x the political program for every True x Believer so if if you're a Christian and x this is the politics to get with um that x wrong in principle no matter what that x is wrong in principle no matter what the x agenda is because only the church is x authorized to proclaim the name of Jesus x and carry his standard into the world x it's even worse with a political x movement that Champions some causes that x are unjust so again think about the x Lesser two evils there are some unjust x causes with any politician you're going x to vote for x um Christian nationalism in such cases x is calling evil good and good evil it's x taking the name of Christ as a fig Leaf x to cover its political program um so x this is really about manipulating x Believers not actually um not doing not x engaging in anything that Believers x should be involved with um so I just x wanted to share that uh there's a lot x more to say about that in the June 2024 x uh Tidings um WR Dave Jennings had an x editorial in this this uh tidings x uh where he x commented I think the context was he was x commenting on the the Trump Bibles that x were being sold um his comment was I x wonder if there's ever been a more x explicit attempt to affix Christian x values to nationalism and the pursuit of x political power uh usually it's more x concealed appearing only as a call for x Christians to stand up for the values of x the scriptures after all wouldn't the x country be stronger and more blessed if x the candidate elected espoused the x teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ um x and yeah I think that's really appealing x right who who Among Us you know even if x we're not voting right we'd probably be x happy if the present of the country that x we live in had a moral compass that was x Guided by biblical principles I mean x that seems like a good thing right it's x no wonder that that you know people are x lining up to vote for um for somebody x who can quote scripture or you know x seems to be influenced by uh the word of x God in some x way um but I I think it's also very x difficult to see well which which is the x candidate that's most aligned with for x lack of a better term the politics of x Jesus right um not that Jesus is x involved in any of this world's politics x but the the positions um that that are x important to the government of the x kingdom of God the things that will be x put forward when you have truly x righteous government um I mentioned the x the PO the polls um and the numbers of x protestant Evangelical voters if you x look at Catholics they're much more x split obviously Catholics feel very x strongly about issues like abortion x which are traditionally conservative but x they're much more aligned with the x Social Gospel as well and sort of x welfare and caring for the poor and and x Justice issues um so they're much more x split when you look at um the polling x for Catholics and how they x vote um x but from the the perspective of biblical x morality the question of which candidate x is best or even lesser of two evils it x it's really not clear uh so so David's x editorial goes on to contemplate uh the x harm that could occur in the Ecclesia if x it got too involved with x politics um he talks about you know x hearing political exhortations or x Ecclesia being divided over these things x um you know just just the damage that x could come and I think this connects x back to sort of that ecclesial and unity x uh question that we we started off with